1958 Franklin Half Dollar PCGS MS67+ FB CAC sells for $110k at auction

I agree. Even if someone is an expert, I don't see how they can grade (old) coins in the time that they allot to each one.

And when you have a coin that is rare and/or can be worth a mulitple of $$$ if it goes up 1 or 2 grades....then the TPGs have a responsibility to get it right. Don't spend the same 15 seconds on a 1907 Saint or a 1948 Franklin that you would on a newly-minted "First Release" 1 oz. Gold Eagle or Buffalo. If you miss there -- whether it's an MS69 or MS70 -- who gives a damn.

Ultimately, and unfortunately, these are businessess (PCGS is publicly-traded) and they have a higher (?) fiduciary duty to their shareholders/owners than they do their customers/clients. If they doubled the time they spent on each coin -- still probably under 1 minute -- that would cut their revenues in half (assuming they don't increase the number of graders, who can offset the loss of volumnes assuming they are competent).

 

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BTW, I think this whole Franklin FBL discussion and the increased grading was originally at another website. I know it involved Franklin's. I posted the link and the fact that the coin jumped in price exponentially once it went up 2 grades. The original owner/holder was very upset as I recall.

 

They "bought it," alright. "Swallowed it whole" is probably a better way of putting it...

 

They take the time they need. There's not a shot clock where oh sorry times up move on type thing.

 

I'm sure they are under alot of pressure, especially newer, younger graders.

John Albanese says he looks at 450 coins a day. That's alot to decide on a CAC sticker or not even though he's not starting from scratch with each coin, he has a rough estimate of the grade from the TPG. Still, that's 8 hours of coins assuming 1 minute per coin. And that assumes no breaks, handling times to look at each coin, or work on the business side of things for CAC during the day. The more he handles coins or works on corporate stuff, the less time he has per coin. If he spends 1/2 his day on non-grading business, then he's spending about 30 seconds per coin.

I could be wrong, but I recall an ex-grader or current grader at a site years ago saying that he/they spent about 20-30 seconds per coin, and he couldn't recall many times when they approached let alone exceeded 1 minute.

 

Look at it this way. If you're a mechanic and a car need an oil change do you need minutes to figure it out? What if you're a butcher and someone says they want a ribeye do you need minutes to figure out what that is?

Professional experts don't need minutes on everything they see, some things are super quick others take time. If there is a reason to take longer they can, but most things don't take much time. A lot of the people who are saying that they should be taking minutes or an hour a coin ect are just showing their lack of knowledge and inability.

There is no shot clock and new graders don't grade the best stuff on their own. The whole time thing came from people estimating the total output which is mainly modern bulk submissions like ASEs vs a normal work day which some how turned into oh they only have seconds and have to be done by then.

 

You make some good points, but let me play Devil's Advocate:

Someone submits a medium-tough to get Saint Gaudens Coin. Not a common but not one of the coins costing 5 or 6 or 7-figures.

In 30 seconds, even if you are an expert, you have to look for:

(1) Scratches in the fields. How many, how deep.
(2) High points like Liberty's breast (obverse) and Eagles wings/breast on reverse. Check the Torch. Mouth and nose on Lady Liberty -- worn, or still sharp ?
(3) Verify that the coin is NOT a fake or very good copy like the Omegas. Need to look closely at strike and date.
(4) Any nicks on edges of coin.
(5) Year Particulars: Some years the strikes stunk and you won't be dazzled, other years the coins are well struck. You need to know this upfront or you might over or undergrade a coin.
(6) Copper spots and toning: a plus or a minus ?

That's just a few things off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more.

OK, I'm no expert in grading but I think I would probably need 2-3 minutes to get to within 90% accuracy.

My specialty is investing and money management and while I can an alalyze a portfolio with the best of them, I need time. I can't analyze and do a risk analysis and an asset allocation sight-unseen or within 30 seconds, even though that is my field of expertise.

 

Some varieties and authentication/doctoring issues can take that long, but for grading unless something doesn't look right that's much more time than necessary especially when you're doing it all day every day. If you take too much time you end up confusing yourself and talking yourself into different grades. Generally the first instinct for the grade is the most fitting.

 

looks all battle worn, i see many scratches and gouges, i would grasde this an ms-64 at best

 

yup, i said 64 at best, lol

 

I do not see it! The obverse looks like he had a frontal lobotomy with that gash above his eye. The reverse is much better. $100,000.00??? Barnum was right.
Semper Fi

 

Revisiting this thread. Putting the question of toning aside.
There are so many nicks/scratches/gouges on the head and vest it is impossible to be a 67. I am sure I missed some on the numbers and lettering.

 

That coin is no better than 65.

 

just another example of pcgs and theirinaccurate grading, like the coin in this link, it is currently bidding at 1200+ and is no more than a 65 or less condition, check it out...they call it a 67+

https://www.greatcollections.com/Co...wer-Dollar-Type-2-PCGS-MS-67-Toned-from-photo

 

We all have different standards and I see that as a good thing. It keeps things in a reasonable balance. Holding the coin is always the best way to really understand it.

 

I think the graders added a couple points for the exotic toning on the 58 Franklin, but I just don't get high grade on the 76 type 2.

 

I couldn't grade that coin as a 67 plus on a bad day. Forget about spending that much money it. The half being a modern issue (post 1950) I wonder how many rolls of these half dollars are stashed away by collectors and even dealers. I know of some dealers that have been around a long time and don't know what they have. Roll collecting was big back then so spending a lot of money on a common coin is just asking to lose money.

 

i did bid on the type 1, but once it hit 1k, i gave up, it is over 2500 now...this is the one i did want: https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/968305/1976-D-Eisenhower-Dollar-Type-1-PCGS-MS-67
anyways, the first coin i posted previously is around 1400 now, i would not pay 40.00 for it, it is a 64 in my book, possible 65/..pcgs is not to be trusted at all, especially after the half dollar above 100k+ for a 30.00 coin, lol people sure have more $$$ than brains, in my opinion, bidding war going crazy because of artificial toning??? my my....personally if a coin is not real toning, i steer clear

 

absolutely false.

That was never a $30 dollar coin in any grade which even a novice should know..........

 

That's just silly. Statements like that come from someone that is just looking for attention. Few will believe it has any truth.