numisnetwork investing

Well you need to keep in mind that coins, even those made of silver and gold in ms70 condition, go up and down in value just like everything else. Look at Snaz's opening post where he gives an example of how one could have lost thousands on ms 70 St. Gaudens after their bubble burst. While one can make plenty of money through coins, you really aren't inherently at any less of a risk than if you used more traditional investments. Heck, there's a lot of risk in just keeping your money in the form of tiny objects that are very easy to steal that you don't really have to deal with for most other investments.

 

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Another Numisnetwork pitch(er)

My guess is that Numisnetwork has been using social networking to troll for prospects. While I am not on Facebook or Twitter, for professional reasons, I am on LinkedIn (including their coin forum). A couple of weeks ago, I got a pitch from Leslie Hatter via LinkedIn. This was my reply:

Leslie,

Thanks for the info. It sounded intriguing in the beginning but when I discovered that Mike Mesak (sp?) was involved, I lost all interest. He is considered something of a joke in the numismatic community and his involvement with the various TV shopping channels shows much more interest in selling vastly overpriced commodities to relatively naive buyers than providing true values that will appreciate over time. I have a number of friends who are dealers and I always hear stories of people bringing in coins they have bought from TV shopping channel and being vastly disappointed (or angry) when they are told the true value of their "investments".

For that reason alone, I believe I will pass on your recommendation. As for my collecting, my major interests are half cents (my latest is a 1797 plain edge 1/2 cent, VF details Cohen 2) and 18th century type coins, things that rarely or don't exist in mint state and are never advertised on TV. My belief is that, in the long term, you will make far greater gains collecting 18th and 19th century higher grade and key coins than moderns whose mintage's are huge and whose MS/PR69 and 70 population numbers continue to grow as more people send in coins to be graded.

I find it interesting that the TV shopping channels have been selling the 2009 UHR coins for about the same price as a EF40 heraldic eagle dollar. I'd rather have a EF40 heraldic eagle dollar whose population is relatively fixed than a 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle MS70 NGC whose population already exceeds that of all heraldic eagle dollars of EF up to MS66 (of which 2 exist).

In any case, I hope you are successful in your endeavor(s) whatever they may be.

Bob

Having just read many of the prior posts, I suspect I was far too nice. Anyone want to bet on how long Numisnetwork will survive? or how much the principals will have taken out of Numisnetwork before it craters?

 

I figured that one would get zapped. I normally wouldn't make such a post, but did so in this case to make two (2) points...

1) If that knucklehead follows CT, perhaps he will learn to treat folks on the internet as he would like to be treated himself, and

2) Highlight to the CT community how easy it is to quickly find very personal information about a complete stranger.

I've seen threads like "What's Your Most Expensive Coin", "Where Do You Store Your Coins", or "Will You Be Attending (such and such) Coin Show". It wouldn't take much for even the most dim-witted crook to target someone on CT.

The point is...:loud:"BE CAREFUL!" (please)

 

You know a person if they wanted to be like that guy in the movie with CharleS Bronson, could put that info out there and try to look as much like a fly in a web as possible and then when some jamoke thinks they are going to rob the guy he could turn out to be packing heat and could end up ridding the world of another loser, especially in some states where the laws sympathy is withheld from those who try to make their living by preying on others.

 

That makes four of us except my cellphone is on all the time because I don't have a landline.

D2121hop, Have you checked around to see how the prices he is selling those MS/PF70's for compares to what they would cost from long time established dealers? You may find that you are significantly OVERPAYING for them. If so then your investment is down the tubes before it even begins.

 

Numis Network

Good afternoon Conder, I have checked around quite a bit. In fact I asked the question about how many ms70 coins would typically come out of a fresh roll of ASE'S. The cheapeast I have seen them is 89 dollars. I like that I know I will get an ms 70 coin and I can swith each month to get a kook or a maple leaf or a Panda. I know this may not be for everyone. If you know where I could buy ms70 ASE's for less than 89 I would love to know. There is a good compensation plan involved in this as well. I am not trying to convince anyone to do it. It works for me but I am willing to hear other ideas.
I have Morgans and Peaces and Liberty Walking coins as well as Ikes and quarters. I am a collector, but I was trying to share the joy with my son and attempt to get him into something that can last a lifetime. I am not trying to sell this it is just another option. Yes the coins are 99.99 but the lowest I have seen at apmex or coin mart is 89 and several places are much higher and ebay is a whole other story.
I am open minded about this and not really investing but of course we would all like to see what we buy become more valuable as time passes.

Thanks for you input I look forward from seeing your response.

 

I would think that for the price paid for a modern MS70, you'd be better off in the long run to buy lower grading bullion for 1/5 the price, if not less. The market for MS70 bullion is fickle at best. I read somewhere that almost 60% of silver eagles are believed to be graded 70 because of modern minting practices. That tells me they're more common than an MS60. The value in these is in the content (silver bullion) and not the grade. Experiment on your own if you don't think this is true. Buy 1 MS70 and then as many MS60-65's as the same amount it took to buy the 70 cost and hold them for 6 months and then sell. I bet you know what the outcome will be.
Guy~

 

At the shop we buy a lot of modern eagles in holders. I think my current sale price for a 70 is somewhere in the $45-$50 range for common dates and $25 for common date graded MS69's. $89 is really high IMO. The market for that stuff used to be huge... In recent years it has waned significantly.

 

So are these slabbed, and if so, by what company?
I too would agree that you would be better off to buy a couple just normal ASE out of a roll for $20-$25 each...you would have MORE silver for your dollar, and what is worth more...the coin or the piece of paper that has a number on it?

For those who are new....the coin!

Speedy

 

So, NumisNetwork is sorta like a "Coin O' the Month" club...with a pyramid sales scheme..."If you get enough subscribers, your coins are free!!" Is that how it works?

I would watch their videos, but I still have dial-up and am not patient enough to let them load.

 

Numis network

Yes they are slabbed, the ASE'S are by ANACS, the others are by PCGS and NGC.

 

The prices I mentioned were for NGC and PCGS graded coins... we discount ANACS & ICG graded Eagles. They are usually inferior coins.

 

numis network

Yes that is what I was searching for when I found numis. I don't beleive in badgering people because I dont like to be badgered myself. I see the prices of these coins all over the net and maybe there is a premium for them but at least I know what I am getting. MS70 2010 coins from my choice of Canada China Australia and the US plus Austria. I can choose each month. I had already decided to buy 100 dollar budget for this and I found numis. I don't know if I will convince others especially on cointalk becuase the group here are very knowledgeable I just wanted to try and see what they thought.

 

Hey thanks for the input. I would like to see some of the modern ms70 ASE's in that price range. I went to your store and was not able to find any. Do you have some available that may not be listed? I might be interested in getting some of those.

Dave

 

I have 3 ASE's,, buy them more for bullion than collector value.. all three were purchased at coin shows in the past 3 years (around 1 per year at the local show),,, and mostly to give my kids something to play with as they hopfully mature into the hobby(clean with brillo pad, silver cleaner, etc.. all that stuff we may have done when we first started too)....... All three are graded by pcgs, all three are ms69, and I paid exactly $18, $20 and $20 for them. Unsure of the dates,, didn't even look. In my experience dealers have a surplus of these and are eager to turn them into cash at coin shows,,, instead of paying 3-4x this for the same coin (maybe less some almost invisible flaw @ms70), I'd recommend you attend a show with that same $100, go around to each dealer and offer $20 for any ASE in ms69 he has that your interested in, and I bet ya come out with 5 ounces of silver (or at least 4 oz's) vs. your 1oz. for the same amount of investment. And I'd also bet that if your really interested in the "investment" potential vs. the pyramid marketing opportunity, then you'll do better when it comes time to sell what you've purchased.

 

Dave,

I don't want to break forum rules by doing business in this section. You can PM me with any questions about our inventory.

 

From a newbie point of view: Caveat Emptor!As I understand it, ASE's are bullion coins from the US Mint. I view them as an investment in silver that is in a form that is commerce friendly; more so than silver in fractional or full ingot form.
I do not see the immediate benefit of grading a bullion coin. I can try to understand grading the proof version of the coin.
That said, to those who do business with Numisnetwork, enjoy!
You are the final arbiter of the perceived value versus the cost.
Many posters have indicated that there are variable prices for the same graded product from many sources. Again. IMHO, what you pay should be based on what you value in the coin . . .
just my pov . . .

 

I use facebook and its pretty much only people I know, I dont accept friend requests from people I dont know. I have seen that many people are using it to promote thier business, and I also cant stand it. I have friends on facebook who are coin friends and most are not, I signed up to keep in touch with friends not to help with internet marketing.
Who cares what that guy thinks.... Investing in coins can make you money but can also loss you money, I guess it all depends how much someone knows about this business. I agree with a previous post which investing in Silver Eagles from the mint wont make you money, but there are ways to make a profit in coin investing.
I remember the day the DOW tanked 777 points, boy I wish I had my money in coins at that point.

 

Offset the Decline of the Dollar with U.S. Investment Grade Gold and Silver Coins

I don't profess to know everything about all topics of investing... so my question to contemplate in any investment vehicle is "does it counter-act the decline of the Dollar?" As with any investment these days, that is my main concern... and why I look to coins as the answer.

In my search, I have found that only gold truly counter-acts the decline of the U.S. Dollar. Since the Euro was established, although it is only back by gold 15%, it has by far outperformed the U.S. Dollar and, since the U.S. Dollar is not backed by gold, it has lost it's value and continues to lose its value. So far, the only investment I have found to truly counter-act the fall of the Dollar is by literally backing yourself with gold.

To be specific, U.S., investment-grade gold and silver coins, so it's not just bullion, which value is derived by way of its weight, but also the collector's or "rarity" value. In other words, gold bullion's value is based on it's weight alone, whereas an investment-grade gold / silver coin's value would also be from their rarity value, in addition to their actual weight in gold and silver.

Lastly, the primary reason to look at coins as an investment, at least for me, is their privacy level, because no one has to know that you have them. They are not reportable, as most other investments. I am a client of and highly recommend Gold Run Investments for their expert advice as well as the best pricing structure. They have educated me to the point where I believe I have a good understanding now in the difference of several different types of gold investments.

For more information, go to GoldRunInvestments.com. Don't ask for me, because I am not a part of their company, I am just a very happy client and will continue to invest with them because they have the lowest prices that I have found, after contacting several of the firms, and the savings has gone right back into my investment portfolio for a higher return on my investment, which is why I tell everyone I know. Other firms charge extraordinary fees, but not this one. They don't have the normal markups that take advantage of the clients, and I've spoken to just about every large precious metal firm in the U.S.

If you have questions, talk to their experts. They will explain everything without making you feel ignorant. It was a process for me since I used to invest in gold stocks, but then again, learning how to invest in stocks was a process for me, too. Best of luck to you in protecting yourselves and your family.