United States of grading

[FONT=&quot]Hello fellow collectors,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I am what you would call a novice in coin collecting. The world of information seems endless and with so many different opinions it is sometimes hard to see witch ways is up and witch way is down. And because I have been selling and buying coins for the last few months I have had to dig deep for information and dig fast. Trying not to lose sight of why I started this. The art of coin making
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[FONT=&quot]Before I start I would just like to say that I use the coin grading system from Europe and I collect both machine made coins as well as hammered ones. I do put some of my collection in airtites but most of my rare old coins are not in any holders. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Now the reason I am talking about this is because have been reading The PCGS book on grading and spotting counterfeits. This is a must because I sell on eBay and want to learn the US grading system. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]But reading this book has made me realize that the US system of grading cannot be used on hammered coins. And can only work on machine made coins. How English hammered coin from the 1400´s can get a grading of XF40 Is something I cannot understand. As the methods of making hammered coins is so different then the methods of making machined coins. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Your thoughts are welcomed,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Siggi [/FONT]

 

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This question might seem stupid, but I am unsure of what a hammered coin is. I am sure it is not used in the vernacular hammered, such as "I got so hammered last night I forgot where I left my car and had to call for a ride". I would imagine that a hammered coin would be where some thick muscled man with a large heavy hammer or maul would set a planchet in between some handcrafted dies and would come down on it with a grunt and hammer the coin.

So what is a hammered coin?

But that is probably imagination and not reflective of what the term actually refers to.

 

Your spot on

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammered_coin

 

The US started striking coins just slightly over 200 years ago.
There are some state coins that go back over 350 years but basically minting in the US is relatively recent.

Most Americans that have been collecting for 10 or more years are aware that the US grading standards are quite different than the rest of the world.
It just a matter of getting the appropriate guide to be able to deal with grading US coins.
I'm familiar with the PCGS book you mentioned but most US collectors use one of these two books:
- Official A.N.A. grading Standards for United States Coins [my preference]
- Photograde

It's not unusual for the oldest US coins (from the 1790's) to be bought, sold or traded without the benefit of one of a grading company holder (slab).
But that takes a LOT of study and experience to ensure you are actually getting what you think you are getting.
Most collectors don't have or don't want to spend the time gaining that knowledge.

I'll leave it to the colonial coins experts to define how they are graded.

 

I do not know if there are hammered coins in TPG holders using the us 70 point system, but I think it could be done, if 70 represents an unmarked well struck example, and 0 represents a piece of metal worn smooth then it is possible to extrapolate more or less where a condition of 40 might lay along that path. More if you are selling and less if you are buying.

 

Another question for those in the know, what is the europeon system of grading?

 

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[FONT=&quot]Thank you for the hint on the books I will check them out.

I do understand why the system was made and that is does work with the later coins as you state with the us minting history.

No matter what grading we use we have to have the experience and knowledge. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The reason why I’m asking these questions is because I have seen coins that are hammered graded by PCGS and NCG . I use a book called siegs and it´s a price list for Scandinavian coins. There you will not see any coins with MS grading of coins that are hammered. Because it´s not possible to find one in that state. So the 70 point system can´t apply. I just think that the grading companies should state that or have different grading techniques as the price lists do not even apply as they do to machined coins. [/FONT]

I disagree as you will never find hammered coins that are UNC

 

Sometimes I google to fast with out reading but I agree the link is not as good as it should be.

The thing i´m trying to say is that the 70 point system was made for coins that are machine made. A clean sheet of metal running trough a machine that is cleaned as well as dies that are polished. Against a crude hammered coin were the metal is softened in fire hand made dies. And mind you a good strike is a strike made after coffie break. The machine does not take a break it breaks down

Siggi

PS would love to see the pictures of the graded coins

 

Wow Very Nice!!!!:bow:

 

Those are stunning coins thank you for posting them

I will say this again, My argument is about the 70 Point system not working with hammered coins. The system was build for money making. Saying to you a coin with 3 scratches is worth more then the one with 4. This can work with maschine coins even though I think it´s redicilous sometimes. But does not work with hammered coins.

The 70 point system takes in effect weak strikes. That for one says enough to me that it does not work on hammered coins.

 

siggi,

You stated "The 70 point system takes in effect weak strikes."

From my experience with strictly gold hammered coins .. the Sheldon Scale (70 point system) does not take into account weak strikes! (I assume you mean negative points)


BTW ... Here is one of the first and still one of my favorite coins in my collection ... sorry it is not hammered

Iceland
1961 500 Kronur
NGC MS67
Eliasberg Pedigree