1804 Half Cent

Here is another one of my recent purchases. This is my first "early copper" and it looks really great in my Dansco type album.

Can any of you collectors out there with early copper references recognize any die pairs, varieties, etc?

I would also value any input on this coin's grade (and why!).

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Early copper is not my specialty. I would put it around F/VF...probably F.

Fish? Where's Fish? He can attribute the variety for you.

 

Very nice Cohen-13 (R1). I love the 1804 half cents...they are a collection unto themselves. I would grade this one VF25 (nice leaf detail on the Reverse). There are a few too many dings to say VF30 (imo). Still a very nice coin...congrats! :hail:

 

Nive example of a half cent. I think vf20. Once again nice baby copper.

 

VF20 nice piece.

 

I guess I look at half cents through a rose colored loupe...I just love them!!

 

a very nice, evenly toned piece.

 

Nothing wrong with that. I gotta few of these little puppies myself.

 

My favorite is an 1804 AU-53 C5 (late die state). I call it my "Frankenstein" half cent...spectacular!

 

Congrats ! Nice grab.

This is Cohen-13 (Breen 10), rarity 1. Obverse die 5, reverse die F.

The most obvious characteristics are plain 4 (no crosslet on horizontal part), no stems on the wreath, and 6 berries on the left branch (most have only five; the extra one is on the outside near the top, below TA).

This is the most common variety of 1804, which is the most common Draped Bust half cent.

 

VF20 details, a few minor nicks and grazes, planchet and surfaces average plus (which is darn good). Cleaned and recolored. Net EAC 12. CQR says $120

 

You obviously know more about these than I, but (to me) the reverse appears to be a higher grade than VF20 (looking past the weak strike)...which would raise the overall grade of the coin (imo) to VF25. I'm not schooled well enough to detect "cleaned and recolored". Are there keys you look for that you could share?

 

Just my opinion and I am not an expert on cleaning and recoloring, but if you look on the obverse positions 9 to 12 you see a slight pinkish type color which to me indicates a cleaning and I am not positive about the recoloring. To me it is the smooth light brown coloring across the surface - not perfect, but not that bad. As for the grade I agree the reverse is slightly higher than the obverse - but you typically go with the lower of the two grades. To me the wear on the hair, the bust and the slight rim dings make it VF20. Still a nice coin and just my opinions.

 

I value your opinion (I'm here to learn)...thanks for sharing! :bow: Thanks to 900fine, also.

 

Congratulations on your nice half cent!

 

Nice coin. Guess I'm the odd one out here in thinking it would grade F. Thats based on drapery and coils detail, not the weak strike on a lot of the lettering. Still a very nice keeper though.
Guy~

 

I will join the consensus VF-20, Nice Coin!!

 

Well, it's more Art than Good Science; more hunch and experience than anything else.

For one thing - there is much dirt and crud in recessed / protected areas, such as folds of drapery, 'twixt bow and stems, and within letters. Cleaning gets stuff off of flat surfaces such as fields and open areas of relief (i.e. cheeks etc) but fails in recessed / protected areas, so that suggests cleaning.

Cleaning commonly leaves a very strange brassy look which is obviously wrong on 200 year old copper, so folks use a variety of methods to recolor it - kinda like Artificial Toning. This also leaves unnatural color, just not as bad.

One thing to remember is many photos show color very different from the coin itself; in fact, viewing the same photo on different computer monitors shows different color. My avatar looks nowhere near as hip as the actual coin, and it's possible the same is true of the OP coin. It might be natural color, but the photo doesn't look right to me.

 

The photo suggests a coin much too light and red; I bet the coin was very dark before cleaning (if it was, in fact, cleaned). My hunch is the coin was as dark as the folds in Libbie's drapery.

Please don't get me wrong - this is a nice coin and I bet the owner is excited about it. I would be.

 

FAQs about copper color :

Q: "How do I recognize a recolored coin ? How can I spot bad color ?"
A: One learns to spot bad color by looking at a lot of good color.

Q: "How can I be sure any given early copper is, in fact, good color ? How do get a 'standard' from which to work ?"
A: The key is luster.

Hustlers can fool around with color; they can even retool missing details. But nobody can fake luster. If they mess with anything else about the coin, it will ruin the luster to some degree. Once it's gone, there is no way to restore it.

So look for early copper which still has original luster; look for cartwheel or even early die state prooflike coins. These will almost certainly be AU and MS coins*. They will show a variety of color from dark brown to full mint red.

The most instructive are coins which show both brown and some mint red remaining. Look at the "interface zone", as red and brown intermingle. Look how the red fades down into brown. There's this "misty" look which cannot be faked.

It's a wonderful and beautiful thing.

Once you have found early copper coins with original luster, one can be confident that the color is also natural. Not always, but almost always.

Look at lots and lots and lots of them, at coin shows and auctions. You will find a very broad range of legit color, and will learn to recognize the "oddness" of unnatural color, even on coins which are worn to VF and have no remaining mint luster.

Once you have a lot of "good color" in your head, you will recognize bad color.

Realize that recoloring is sometimes a slow, natural process; many coppers are recoloring themselves after a cleaning very long ago.




* Realize that not all AU or MS copper will have original luster. Many have been messed with, and many others have been through a lot in 200 years and lost luster by natural means.