My first coin of Octavian

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by DonnaML, Sep 21, 2021.

  1. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Although I have several coins of Augustus -- which themselves tend to be quite expensive -- I have never, until now, bought one of his coins from the period before 27 BCE when he was known as Octavian. It seems almost impossible to find one in halfway decent condition that doesn't cost well over $500. The one I just purchased cost considerably less than that, and even has a provenance, so I decided to buy it even though its condition isn't really more than "halfway" decent -- it looks better in hand than in photos, and it's good enough for me!

    The Triumvirs, Octavian, AR Denarius, Autumn 30-Summer 29 BC, Italian (Rome?) Mint. Obv. Bare head right, anepigraphic / Rev. Octavian’s Actian arch (arcus Octaviani), showing a single span surmounted by statute of Octavian in facing triumphal quadriga; IMP • CAESAR on the architrave. CRI 422 (ill. p. 257) [D. Sear, The History and Coinage of the Roman Imperators 49-27 BC (1998)]; RIC I 267 (Augustus); RSC 123 (Augustus); Sear RCV I 1558, BMCRR 4348 (= BMCRE 624). Toned, scratches, some scrapes, and banker's marks. Fine. 21mm, 3.25 g, 3 h. From the Lampasas Collection. Ex. Classical Numismatic Group Electronic Auction 487, Lot 474 (10 March 2021); ex Classical Numismatic Group Electronic Auction 390, Lot 456 (1 February 2017).*

    version 2 Combined Octavian from group photos.jpg

    *See CRI pp. 257-258: “Prior to excavations in the Roman Forum in 1950-53 the size of the arch depicted on the second of the architectural denarii in the IMP CAESAR series [see also No. 421, RIC 266] remained uncertain. It is known that the Senate had decreed arches at Rome and Brundisium to commemorate Octavian's victory at Actium, but the remains discovered in 1888 near the temple of Divus Julius were of a triple arch which did not accord well with the appearance of the coin type. Further investigation on the site eventually revealed traces of an earlier single span structure which may be identified as Octavian's Actium arch. This had evidently been demolished little more than a decade after its erection when the much larger triple span arcus Augusti was constructed in 19 BC in honour of Augustus' recovery from the Parthians of the legionary standards lost by Crassus and Antony.” [Footnotes omitted.]

    I downloaded a brief video of the coin provided by the dealer, but for whatever reason it doesn't show up when I click on "upload a file." (The Facebook link is https://www.facebook.com/1628887970/videos/pcb.578179026874857/443666673626750, but it's to the private Facebook group where I bought it, so I believe one would have to be a member to view it.)

    Please post your own Octavians -- I'm sure all or most of them will put mine to shame, but I'd love to see them anyway!
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021
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  3. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..that's a Dan-D Donna...kool reverse! :) IMG_0676.JPG IMG_0677.JPG
     
  4. Parthicus

    Parthicus Well-Known Member

    Very nice coin @DonnaML . My own Octavian is even lower in technical grade, but I think it's still not bad aesthetically, plus the lituus on the reverse can be used to hypnotize anyone who disagrees:
    Octavian priest.jpg
     
  5. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    Congrats @DonnaML! I don't think there will be many coins here to put yours to shame.
    @ominus1 - I envy you, I would like one of those, @Parthicus, the lituus is indeed hypnotizing.

    Here is a coin hard to put to shame any others but I like it as it is the only coin in my collection from the time of Marc Anthony and Octavian and also my only RR provincial.

    upload_2021-9-21_23-33-13.png


    25 mm, 11,01 g
    Roman Republic, Macedonia, Thessalonica, Mark Anthony and Octavian, year 5 (37 BC)
    Obv ΑΓΩΝΟΘΕΣΙΑ, head of Agonothesia, r. / Rev ΑΝΤ ΚΑΙ in wreath
    RPC I 1552a, BMC 64, Cop 375
     
  6. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

  7. jdmKY

    jdmKY Well-Known Member

    D7858701-4B66-4653-8D18-3C7ED8F6CDB3.jpeg 026AD1E5-C221-4EE2-86EF-24447AAED274.jpeg
    With Julius Caesar
    43 BC

    5313AEF3-4CBA-481C-8EC6-9AA8B83FC3FE.jpeg 4FD8A032-851E-4841-AAE2-11B6DA23F50C.jpeg
    With Marc Antony
    41 BC

    F417FA25-E4AE-41A2-A6C5-CD522FEFE1E5.jpeg 7582DD02-F0EE-41A6-A32F-11B1E58F8465.jpeg
    30-29 BC
     
  8. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    Historically significant and beautiful denarius @DonnaML. Great choice:)

    My favorite topic: Augustus whose birthday is coming up in two days.

    Augustus appears in history with three different names:
    His original name was Gaius Octavius. After Caesar’s death and having adopted and named his great-nephew Octavius his heir in his testament of September 45 BC, the young Octavius takes the name Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus and in the year 27 BC and by motion of the senate he is called Imperator Caesar Augustus, were it is to be noted that Imperator is placed first and as such became prenomen.

    Gaius Octavius was born under Cicero’s consulate on September 23, 63 BC. His birth house in the palatine district, not far from the Via Sacra, had the name “ad capita bubula” at the bull heads. After Augustus’ death the house was declared a sanctuary and, on its spot, stood later the church San Bonaventura.

    About Octavius childhood little is known. His father had been governor of Macedonia for two years before his death when Octavius was 4 years old, making it very unlikely that he had any memories of his father. Octavius was raised by his mother Atia and his grandmother Julia. Atia remarried a man of nobility, Lucius Marcius Philippus, who took good care of the education of his stepson.

    In the fall of 45 BC Julius Caesar created a new group of patricians (Lex Cassia) and Octavius became a member of the Patricians. Shortly thereafter, Caesar sent his great nephew to Apollonia (today Valona, Albania) were he should be acquainted with military tasks and be prepared for future command. At the same time, he studied Greek and Rhetoric with Apollodarus in Pergamum, Mathematics with Theogenes. His companions in military education were Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa and Quintus Salvidienus Rufus. Salvidienus, his military mentor, was a bit older than Octavius and initially devoted to him. Even though Salvidienus was a candidate for consul in 39 BC, during the Perusine War he took sides with Octavius enemies. Salvidienus appears on coins probably from 41/40 BC (Cohen 514) with the legend IMP(erator) COS DESG (i.e. Consul Designatus). On the other hand, Agrippa was his trusted friend throughout life.

    A denarius also from the same time as yours. The reverse of this denarius leaves the specific victory unspecified. The most likely possibility is that it commemorates Agrippa’s victory over Antony and Cleopatra at Actium the previous September, the final triumph for Octavian, the undisputed master of the Roman Empire.

    The Triumvirs, Octavian, Italian mint, Rome (?), Autumn 30 - Summer 29 BC
    19 x 20 mm, 3.611 g
    CRI 419; RIC I 265A (Augustus);

    Ob.: Bare head right
    Rev.: Naval and military trophy facing, composed of helmet, cuirass, shield, and crossed spears, set on prow of galley right; crossed rudder and anchor at base; IMP CAESAR across field
    upload_2021-9-21_16-0-31.png upload_2021-9-21_16-0-55.png
     
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  9. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    OctavianTempleDen.jpg
    The Triumvirs. Octavian. Spring-early summer 36 BC. AR Denarius (3.79 gm, 5h, 18mm). Mint in central or southern Italy. Obv: Bare head right, wearing slight beard; IMP • CAESAR DIVI • F • III • VIR • ITER • R • P • C around. Rev:Temple of Divus Julius: statue of Julius Caesar, holding lituus, within tetrastyle temple set on podium; DIVO IVL on architrave, star within pediment, figures along roof line; lighted altar to left; COS • ITER • ET • TER • DESIG around. Crawford 540/2; CRI 315; Syd. 1338; RSC 90; RBW 1829.
     
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  10. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Mine (3.0g) is plated showing a classic example of a seam where the foil overlapped as well as core exposure. Is yours?
    rb0860bb0375.jpg
     
  11. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    I hope not! Better check the top of the obverse, though.

    This one cost me $240 in a Steve Album auction (not fourrée):
    octavian denarius.jpg
    RIC 252, issued 32-31 BCE
     
  12. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Nice one Donna. Actually, I rather prefer an ancient in this condition - looks like it has seen some use in antiquity.

    My only Octavian is a military mint issue (per Crawford); $95.00 in 1994.

    Octavian Thunderbolt (AAA).jpg
    Roman Imperatorial Denarius
    Octavian / Q Salvius, moneyer
    (40 B.C.)
    Military Mint in Italy

    C CAESA[R III] VR R P C, bare head of Octavian right / Q SALVVS IMP COS D[ESIG], around thunderbolt.
    Crawford 523/1a; Sydenham 1326b.
    (3.58 grams / 18 mm)
    McDaniels June 1994
     
  13. romismatist

    romismatist Well-Known Member

    I only have a couple of beat up "ASIA RECEPT" quinarii which I bought last year for about EUR 30 each. The French EBay site seems to have them from time to time. I've posted photos of the better one. The portrait on this one is quite nice, despite being on such a small flan and despite the banker's marks on his neck.

    Although one could infer from the legend that these were minted in Asia, they are actually attributed to Rome or Brindisi. They were minted around 29-27 BC, so shortly before Octavian adopted the title of Augustus.
    eur28.jpg eur28r.jpg
     
  14. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Well done, @DonnaML !

    Little Head OCTAVIAN and Buddy

    [​IMG]
    RImp Antony-Octavian AR Denarius 41 BCE 3.65g 18.7mm Military mint Syria star Craw 528-2a Sear 1507
     
  15. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Other than the fact that mine is the same type as yours, is there something specific that makes you think mine might also be a fourree? There's nothing unusual around the rim of mine, and, more importantly, there's a rather deep circular depression on each side -- presumably some sort of bankers' marks -- that shows nothing but silver. Never mind that it twice passed muster with CNG.
     
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  16. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

  17. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Well-Known Member

    I am old enough to remember that many of the coins we now think of being images of Octavian were considered to be part of the coinage of Augustus. It was largely the publication of this book by David Sear Brf52oEfb3aC4xNXn8pHXt7iStL9j6.jpg that we have a better understanding of the transition of the Roman coinage from that of the late Republic to that of the early Empire. Up to that point trying to purchase an Octavian was a bit difficult.
    Octavian Ar Denarius Military mint in Italy 40-39 BC Obv. head right bare Rv Winged Caduceus ANTONINVS IMP Crawford 529/2a CRI 302 3.14 grms 18 mm Photo by W. Hansen 529-b.jpg At this time Octavian was in an alliance with Marc Antony whose name is featured on the reverse of this coin. This image is rather typical of the early portraits of Octavian. The image depicts a very young man with a great mop of hair and a rather thin face and neck. However despite this one can see something of the strength of this individual, something which is completely lacking in the contemporary double portrait denarii minted by Antony which features the image of Octavian.
     
  18. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Your coin has a line across the head ending in the eye which could be a seam rather than a scratch but certainly CNG would have spotted that. My fourree was not struck with enough heat and pressure to merge the two silver foil disks used giving me the seam I really value. It would be quite possible for a mint state, well struck fourree to sneak by. I do wonder how many 'solid' coins have a dirty little secret. The Imperatorial period is full of fourrees and every coin should be looked at carefully.
     
  19. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    the last time i took out my Flavian coins i noticed a hole going thru what i thought for years to be solid silver but have come to another conclusion since then..
     
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  20. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Well, they're all lumped together under Augustus in Vol. I of RSC, published in 1978. At least mine and the others with IMP CAESAR reverses are correctly placed between 30 and 27 BCE, i.e., between Actium and the adoption of the title Augustus. Others are not so specifically dated. And I don't know when RIC is supposed to begin, but my coin is listed in it even though it isn't technically "Imperial."
     
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  21. eparch

    eparch Well-Known Member

    @DonnaML - glad you are now into Octavian's coins. I have been collecting them for many years, (but still only have very few !)partly for the historical interest and partly for their aesthetic appeal, especially those which are anepigramic on the obverse - so much more pleasing than the clutter on later imperial coins.

    My example of your coin with my note about it

    upload_2021-9-22_7-1-31.png

    The novel thing about the Actian Arch was that it was conspicuously decorated as a monument for the celebration of a military triumph. This effect was mainly achieved by setting a triumphal quadriga on top of the arch. Herein lay a decisive difference between this arch and older Republican arch monuments, such as the Fornix Fabianus at the Forum. Before the battle at Actium, victorious generals and admirals were honoured through the erection of honorific statues and columns (sometimes decorated with naval rams; see Columnae rostratae of Augustus; Comitium). Moreover, the victorious triumphators donated their spoils – such as the rams of the defeated fleets or their enemies’ shields – as decoration for the structures on the Forum (see e.g. Rostra Augusti; Tabernae) in order to showcase their military victory. However, the erection of an arch monument in order to explicitly commemorate a triumph was a sensational novelty in the Forum.

    This makes it clear how rigorously the ideological celebration of the victory at Actium was planned. Octavian continued a tradition which had been practised since the middle Republic, namely, erecting honorific monuments on the Forum for individuals who had been victorious in battle. However, he was the first to link the honorific arch closely to the triumphal celebration. The great significance of this honorific monument is attested by the fact that its erection was ordered by the Senate: that is, the Senate officially sanctioned and legitimised Octavian’s victory in the civil war – and this act of legitimisation was visible in permanent form to everybody in the Forum.

    and a couple more

    upload_2021-9-22_7-7-28.png

    Victory bust right, wings spread

    CAESAR - DIVI F to either side of
    Neptune (?) standing left,right foot on globe, holding sceptre and aplustre

    RIC 256

    upload_2021-9-22_7-9-39.png
    Octavian AR Denarius. Italian mint (Rome?), autumn 30 - summer 29 BC.
    Laureate head of Apollo Actius right
    / Octavian, veiled and in priestly robes, ploughing right with team of oxen; IMP•CAESAR in exergue.

    RIC 272; CRI 424; RSC 117.
     
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