I'm not sure what you are asking, but to me, those look more like damage than die breaks. Circulation wear has smoothed out the edge of the scratches and hits. Just my observation from your photos. Other's will follow with their opinions, I'm sure.
Yes the die breaks have to connect in order to be called a pre cud. http://www.error-ref.com/?s=pre+cud
Yup, I knew I had read that somewhere, was looking up the pre-cuds instead of checking error-ref. Thanks for the link, P&G!
I think the term "pre-cud" is stupid. It gives me the impression that someone is just trying to sell a coin for more than it is worth. Correction: "that" instead of "what".
If it is a well-studied die, with a prominent known cud, then I could see using the term. Some early US coins (bust halves, etc) have multiple die states known, some of which develop into shattered dies, retained die breaks, or cuds. The "prime" state with no die cracks would be differentiated from a die state where the breaks start to develop, the state where the cracks connect, the state where the fields are now at a different elevation, and the state where it develops into a full cud. In that case, I could see using the term "pre-cud". For something like this dime, or even a later state of this die... it might feel a little gimmicky.
I don't disagree with ya at all. For me it is really just an interesting coin. What the term originally boiled down to was a large arcing rim to rim die crack. Giving the look of a die that was about to shatter. These IMO are worth a premium. The simple perimeter die cracks that happen to join, may or may not develop into a cud. Interesting only unless you also have the cud. Or the end result and collect all coins in the die progression.
The other way to say it it just a rim to rim die crack. I think Pre-cud is just a term for a rim to rim die crack. Especially if you say pre-cud type die crack. Folks just drop the 'type' when saying it.
So, there is a crack here and a crack there. Has anyone checked their crystal ball to see if it is a "pre-cud" or a "pre-shattered die"? Jason, you've been around on many other forums for quite a long time. Have you ever seen this term used elsewhere, and how long has it been in use?
Earliest reference to "pre-cud" that I can find on google is from August of 2007, around 14 years ago: https://board.conecaonline.org/forum/mint-error-forum/102-1866-rev-cud-shield?p=4737#post4737
To me it’s either a cud or it isn’t. Pre-cud sounds like it was made up and used to make sales on due cracks.
Reading the post, it appears it was used at the time to describe what the die crack looks like prior to the die break which would result in cuds.
"A cud can appear early in the life of a die or late. It can be preceded by a "pre-cud" die crack or appear suddenly." Well, that came from Mike Diamond who happens to be a member here. But, I still have to think that the term is meaningless. A "pre-cud" would have to involve two cracks. So, with this in mind, we've seen many posts here with the Memorial of the Lincoln Cent having a very, very small crack extending from the base of the Memorial on both sides outward toward to the rim. Where, then, would the cud be? The top part of the reverse of the cent or the bottom part? Perhaps @mikediamond will add his comments.
I'll be honest, I hadn't seen the term before. I was just trying to rationalize a use for it, in certain circumstances.
