I'm sure you've seen a Kettle Token before and if you haven't maybe here's your chance. I barely found out about these Tokens around 6 months ago when I wanted to buy one but I found out the true price and how rare they are. Well not specifically how rare they are but how much they cost on ebay and how many sellers try to sell non-Kettle Tokens for the real deal! On the second link below the seller even says, Kettle is missing. If Kettle is missing then what's the point. lol http://www.ebay.com/itm/1803-Half-E...349750?hash=item2cb9d5ae36:g:WFoAAOSw5cNYlgF8 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kettle-Toke...011713?hash=item3ab6810441:g:75MAAOSwPc9Wts7g It's amazing how many sleaze ball sellers there are on ebay and maybe "they don't know any better," I know somebody is gonna say that but I don't believe it for one minute!! lol How about you, do you own one, pic please? Don't care about them? Like me, you want one but they cost too much? Or other comment on what you think? Here's the only Kettle Token I own but it's not a US Draped Bust Token and I don't know if it's genuine or not, any opinions? Just so you know, Kettle was from the UK and minted or steam rolled at least a couple King George Kettle's in 1801. Didn't cost me much so don't worry about giving me bad news. lol
The point is: When the name was removed it was easier to pass the coin off as a $5 to those who did not know better. It is still an altered/damaged Kettle Token. I've never seen the English token, very neat!
Yeah, here's more information on Henry Kettle and his family of die sinkers. Interesting stuff and one of the most famous die sinkers we hardly hear of unless we're researching the subject. Also, another fake, at least I think it's a fake. The token doesn't look worn at all on the obv but on the reverse, it shows a small bit of wear only in one small area. Me thinks it's fake http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?topic=27159.0 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1802-GREAT-...813527?hash=item4d532b1297:g:xhQAAOSwLEtYjnnP
I encountered my first and only KT in 2011. Coin was fashioned like a Fredrick D'or, and if so, was worth sending off to PCGS. EIght weeks later, I inquired about status-----and learned later that PCGS sent this coin to a European affiliate/division for authentication and grading. It came back as a FD'or in A mid-AU grade. Thrilled, I showed it to a dealer buddy (and former ANACS grader), who chuckled, got out a magnifier, and pointed out the telltale clue----which PCGS and I missed. My ignorance is understandable---as 300 y/o "gold" round metal objects from German States are way outside my expertise.
In one of my authentication classes students were told that about a year after ANACS was started in DC, they had certified a few fakes as genuine based solely on the opinion of well-regarded consultants. A very short time after our instructor joined the staff, over a half of the dealer consultants were never used again (including a top authenticator of coins in the US at that time - may he RIP)! Some other professionals who were too "connected" to drop outright were sent a coin every once and awhile to make them think they were still needed. Their opinions were thoroughly checked while they too were slowly phased out of the system.
Your token is Geo III 1801-1. It's one of the earliest in the series. In copper it's R-7. In brass it's R-6. diameter should be 19-1/2 mm. Other than yours, I haven't seen another except in a book.
I got another one a few years after this thread. These are the sellers pics, not great but that's all I have right now! It's a nice one and my favorite Kettle, I'm supposed to have three but one is missing, it'll turn up somewhere!
I wasn't sure if I should resurrect an old thread from 2017 on this topic or start a new one, but Frets post back in April gives me hope With the lack of responses otherwise, I'm guessing there aren't a lot of these out there, or nobody cares about them. Like @fretboard I found chasing the 1803 American based designs an effort in budgetary futility. Even some of Henry Kettles other well known British based designs are pricey as well. However I recently lucked into a couple three Kettles that were well within my budget. I am posting here in the hopes that some earlier posters are still around and could determine the relative rarity of these. The first one has an obverse similar to the 1801 George III above but a different reverse. I would also like an opinion on genuineness, if one can be determined from these photos. I am guessing that the fakes are primarily with the American based designs? Z
The other two that I have turned up after months of futile searching. I turned over every numismatic rock I could find to locate a couple of these that I could afford. Z "Inseparable Friends" #1 "Inseparable Friends" #2
Nice Kettles! Interesting Napoleon Token, certainly a classic for sure! https://en.numista.com/catalogue/exonumia289796.html
Well, according to Numista, it has a rarity rating of 100. That's pretty rare, and the example photo they show is pretty ragged. Lots of scratches, a few rim dings, and heavy rot near the front legs of the steed. My #1 is fairly worn - I would put it at F-VF given the weakness I've seen on the two or three others I've found this past year. The strike on the reverse on this one is what sold me on it. My #2 I would put at XF, but it does have a good rim ding and hit on the "P" in the word "INSEPARABLE." Z
Here is a relatively recent acquisition. I recently picked up a Fauver book and am enjoying doing the research on them. Z
