How common is artificial toning

Unfortunately, Artificial Tone is far more common than it should be. The premium bonus that one can get from a non-disclosed artificially tones coin is just too big of a reward for many fraudsters to pass up, and the problem, along with counterfeits, have penetrated the entire numismatic ecosystem .

There are plenty of quick and easy guilds to show one how they can attempt this, especially on youtube







There are dozens more. This presents a real challenge for TPGs and Tone coin collectors. Understanding how natural toning happens and being able to identify the pedigree and history of a tones coin is the starting point to not getting burned with a fake.

When one sees a particular coin type repeatedly showing up with wild toning, that is a highly suspect situation. It is not a coincidence for wild multi-colored toning to radiate from a series of coins. There are few, if not none, natural processes that will cause a single type to do that. These are not events associated with album toning and the like. They would be one off events, and seeing them repeatedly is an extraordinary event that requires and equally extraordinary and verifiable explanation.

Protections in the market to protect consumers from this kind of fraud is close to non-existent. Yet these coins which are mostly damaged, even TPGs don't uniformly identify them and catch them, either our of lack of desire, or simply limited resources. Truly, buyers are left to fend for themselves, swimming in an ocean of sharks. Know the pedigree of such a coin. Understand how it was toned and judge and whether you can trust the seller. These aren't straight forward assessments and they take time and thought. If you don't know, it is probably better to pass on such a coin and move on to the next treasure.

 

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Nothing new. It's been that way from the beginning of time. Folks clean coins trying to improve them. Folks tone coins to hide cleaning. None of this will ever change.
New people to the hobby don't know better and just want to make the coin look better. Over time they learn from the mistakes.

 

Very common from my viewpoint. Put Vaseline on a coin and heat it.

 

Back when blast-white was the craze they used to dip toning out. Now they dip it in. In a manner of speaking...

 

Protection from what? If someone knowingly buys a coin with suspicious toning -- graded or raw -- where's the fraud? Who has been victimized? This seems like much ado about nothing.

And people looking out for their own interests and taking responsibility for their choices is a bad thing because . . . ?

 

All markets need protection. Refusing to accept this common fact that has been part of market economics and consumerism since the mid-17th century or more, and edified in all Western Law, if not globally is.... well boring. /dev/null

The world doesn't actually work like it is precieved by a bunch of choice fellows at the local truck stop bar. It has a sophisticated reality and works under genuine rules of economics and legal theory.

 

Without indulging in pseudo-intellectual misdirection, and without resorting to condescending references to good ol' boys at the truck stop bar, just answer the question:

If someone knowingly buys a coin with suspicious toning — graded or raw — where's the fraud?

 

http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/15/15-41435-CV0.pdf

 

Never a straight answer. Just more misdirection.

 

This court case is not from any independent party. The owners are father and son and they bought and owned, not only the coin business but a grading company as well. Therefore the court ruled that a fraud was committed by the sale under the RICO act thereby overturning the lower court.

The coins were all examined and determined by Heritage Auctions, PCGS and a third party to be over graded, damaged and not gradeable, improper grades and some to be counterfeit and over priced. Under the RICO one can claim triple damages and recovery of court costs.

It was determined in this case that the value of the coins purchased was only 20.8%, a loss of 79.2%. Fair Market Value was only 26.2% of the amount paid. In other words, the sellers committed fraud by not using a grading service other than their own.

Unless I missed it I saw no mention of toning. Any the buyer was not a collector by any sense of the word.

 

Neither does this one:

https://coinweek.com/bullion-report...ore-than-16-million-in-precious-metals-fraud/

It is misdirection and only supports that frauding the public is really OK... even cool, and legal.

 

Seems like some people would be happier if they just left collecting and numismatics all together.

 

ARTIFICIAL toning.

 

https://www.pcgs.com/news/detecting-doctored-coins-part-1

Like discussed here.

 

Not toning...just everything else.

1 “Cleaning” is a technical term and describes the chemical treatment of a coin’s surface to improve its appearance and desirability. The process can severely damage a coin and is not an accepted technique to enhance the grade of a coin. 2 For example, a 1911-D $5 Gold Indian Head coin graded at MS63 is generally valued at $40,000 while the same coin graded at MS60 is generally valued at $6,750. In selective overgrading, dealers identify coins with such dramatic value spreads and overgrade to overcharge buyers.

 

https://coinweek.com/us-coins/reader-writes-harvey-stack-hobbys-relationship-toning/

Especially with Indian Head and early Lincoln cents, they usually darkened but looked still pretty good. One dealer especially, from the New England area, used to buy these lots, one after another. At first we thought that he had a wholesale business and either gathered them or sorted them for sale in quantity.


No, that’s not what happened.


He would take them home, bleach or strip them in some way, then he would put them in a frying pan and heat them slowly, watching as they turned from pinkish to a somewhat red or light tan (others would become too badly spotted so I guess he removed them), and then within two or three weeks he would place large ads in Coin World or Numismatic News, offering a range of dates, claiming they were Full Red, Part Red, Red/Brown (etc.), and did a land office business until he was sued and had to close shop for mis-representation. So the coloring you talk about was in many cases artificially done. UGH!!!

 

Personally, I don't like toned silver coins, I think that for the most part it detracts from the original look of the coin when it was new

 

But you didn't start this thread about "everything else", you started it about toning.

Do you not understand that ultimately there can be no legal distinctions between natural and artificial toning?

If you don't want to get burned, simply don't buy coins with excessive or suspicious toning. It's that simple.

 

Do you not understand that you're wrong. It is hard to admit. Every fiber in your being demands that you resist admitting this. But in the end it is true and if you admit it, and stop playing armchair lawyer, you will feel better. THIS thread is about how common is Artificial Toning in the market. It is not ASKING any legal questions. So you don't have to give your amateur opinion about that on this thread. You can find a different thread that discusses the legal status of Artificially Toned coins. Or you can start one of your own, if it is not too much work.

But alas, legally you are also wrong. Repeating the same misinformation, over and over doesn't make it right. It is clearly estabished and doing anything to a product which causes it to be misrepresented in its advertising or discription ... is FRAUD. And artificial toning is included.