How could PCGS miss this artificial toning here

Prove it. Facts supported by evidence.

 

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https://www.ebay.com/sch/Uruguay/16...lete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

BTW - it seems he never sold any - so you can buy them all. They make wonderful Christmas ornaments at $200 bucks a piece.

 

Doesn't prove anything with facts or evidence.

 

Is forgies code for something? Google seems to say no.

If you're insisting that the coins this seller has are forgeries... then show something. Seriously. Quite an accusation to make to someone... especially considering google shows CoinTalk pretty close to the top. Slanderous, really. Especially because this seller seems to have a decently sized store.

 

When you artificially tone a coin it is a forgie. If you think he doesn't do this, your wrong. In fact, I first encountered this seller because I purchased a coin, note the slabs are missing from the descriptions. He had no grades on any of the conditions, and burried the detailed grade into the bottom of the description. It wasn't until I asked for an image of the entire slab that it showed up detailed. We reversed the deal. At least in that he didn't give me a hard time. I then walked though and found nearly 20 identical Uraguay 1969 FAO's - ALL toned the act same way. Some detailed, some raw and som that passed throught like the original example.

There is ZERO way this guy is not a forger.

No - he has pulled a great deal of the incriminating coins. Good. It should stay that way. Don't buy one of those kenedy halfs though, with the funky toning. He is just moving on to the next target, although frankly the Uraguay coins are a sweeter target - big silver coins and not many collectors. He is 100% what I said he is. You've been informed and warned. So go spend you money on his fake merchandise.

 

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/forgery

There is more - you can read.

 

Right but you keep spelling it forgie.

 

https://www.ebay.com/usr/edynamicmarketing

BTW - aniother one. Not sure if it is the same individual

 

Don't see how that definition adds anything.

I'm over this.

Why didn't you get this one? I don't see any reason this would be a 'forgie' in your view. Then, we wouldn't have an issue... right? And the seller doesn't seem to be a 'con', 'fraud', or whatever. Also, I cracked a joke in that thread that went under appreciated


https://www.cointalk.com/threads/hunting-for-a-1000pe-1969-uragay-as-a-gift.375761/#post-6457570

 

I can't prove anything concrete, but a previous post I mentioned how he's selling garbage ancient coins as "GEM." The classic "one bad apple" idea applies here. Although ancients =/= toned Morgans, it still leaves a bad taste in my tongue.

Here's a bunch of slabbed detailed coins:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_ss...sid=p2046732.m570.l1313&_nkw=details&_sacat=0

Lots of those detailed coins are NGC slabbed with "Details - Cleaned," such as this Mexican coin:

I suspect that coins like these were improperly cleaned in order to induce toning. If he can do it with coins like the above, then he can do it with Uruguayan coins.

 

My comment was geared for CPL to explain. You did all the work for him now.

 

ooops....

 

there is no oops. More than enough has been said about this and the facts were established from the beginning. Much of the postings afterwards have been begging for useless arguments. Perhaps a side effect of the ignor box. The ebay profile with all the detailed coins and look alike toned examples of an obscure design speaks for itself.

 

You had absolutely zero facts on your side. It's the only resaon this thread made it to 6 pages

Ignoring tends to make men and women ignorant, If you have too, have at it.

 

I have no dog in this fight, but in my outside opinion, if a seller has a slew of toned coins graded as "DETAILS - CLEANED" and then a slew of coins that have very similar toning and are straight graded, then it would stand to reason, I think, that there is a rather significant non-zero chance that some of the straight graded coins are DETAILS - CLEANED, and missed by the graders?

I don't know. Seems reasonable.

 

Or, you could think of it this way, the collector has a capital amount of buying power, he has made the same mistakes as anyone in the collector market.
Buy a coin that you thought may be acceptable, find out that it was not what you wanted.

That doesn't make you a FORGIE, It makes you a seller of the same foolish coin you bought. Knee Ner Knee Ner

These folks can be picked don't forget that, just because I am selling this coin doesn't have to mean it isn't acceptable.

 

PS, I have never bought a coin from photo's. They are easily deceiving.
I prefer in hand buys. A shake of the hand.
It's really a shame that we/ the majority expect the TPG's to do all the work, they are as infallible as the next man.

 

That's a good point. Could very well be a "cherry-picker" type of dealer who targets colorful toned coins, does mass submissions, and hopes for the best.

The amount of detailed coins indicates that the dealer is either not 100% skilled in identifying acceptable coins, or just goes willy-nilly wild and buys up everything with color.

Either way, long as the TPG considers it genuine, that's certainly better than buying raw, without an in-hand look.

 

Not for that coin. Coulda Shoulda don't matter anyway.

 

It really just brings into question of the value of the grading company, especially PCGS

https://www.pcgs.com/news/originality-and-toning

They are just not good at this, even when confronted by multiples of such coins, of an obscure and limited run that then show up on ebay. They should demand pedigree and an explanation how extraodinary toning happened. It is just a business decision on their part to get AT coins end up slabbed, and it is not limited to just the Uraguay FAO example.