I'm just here to make a complaint based on cherry picked items, the reason being that one of them belongs to me, and I maintain that I got robbed!!! Anyone who thinks ICG overgrades has not met Insider nor had much in the way of dealings with them in my view. Which of these is nicer? Damaged where?!?!?! Buy the coin, not the slab, amirite? I'm thinking about resubmitting it to PCGS. Any of you have examples of undergraded / overgraded? Who is the worst among the big four TPGs and why? Please post examples!
I just submitted 7 ICG crack outs to PCGS to be graded. All are nice IH and LW cents. My main motivations for switching TPGS are registry and resale. I plan on creating a new thread with the results after the grades come back. I'll probably post the TrueView photos and let everyone guess the ICG and PCGS grades. There are some very nice, well graded coins in ICG holders.
I work for ICG and have never worked for PCGS. IMO, this type of post is not helpful at any level. The images of the coins inside the slabs are useless. PCGS is one of the top TPGS. ALL the four major services offer a review service if the grade is in question. It's best to give it a try. PS Coins can be positioned to hide problems thus the only damage I see on the quarter in the 2x2 is environmental. The minor gouges are probably "market acceptable." The slab does not say damaged rim so I suspect something else OR ICG should correct the label!
We had a dealer drop off a batch of coins he just bought in Dalton. He said he put ICG MS-65 dollars out at PCGS prices. We asked how much he had to discount the price. He said he did not discount them - take it or leave it and all sold.
Hahaha, I've woken the Kraken! Nice to see you Insider, this is merely a personal lament, not a reasonable analysis post, please don't take any offense. I'm more emotionally tied to my coins than is rational. Plus people love to complain about this stuff, so I thought I'd add some fuel to the fire. Incidentally that PCGS is currently for sale on the bay, and better photos do indicate, in my view, that it is an inferior coin.
Well I've noticed lately that IH and early LW cents in ICG slabs are selling at prices close to the big 2. So that tells me that those collectors have no problem with the grades that ICG has given; myself included. I hate to play the crack out game but I've mentioned before why I am doing this.
You may be right, my eye sight is atrocious, and my grading skills... are a work in progress, which is one of the reasons I've been enjoying sending some coins to ICG over the last year or so. Anyway, I love this 21, regardless of the label. I have a "straight" G4 and a details G6 in slabs that aren't nearly so nice. It's rare to see a 1921 SLQ with such a nice date. Further grading tales from the edge - I bought two raw SLQs - one a 1929 and one a 1924 from a local internet auction in Connecticut, from close up pictures I hoped they both would grade MS and Full Head, I paid $125 each, which is a lot for me, and I got.... a 1929 MS63 FH and a 1924 AU53 Details, Cleaned back from ICG. Very interesting to me to look at both of them under magnification to try and understand the small differences.
Anyone who has not tried submitting their best loose coins to a TPG should try it. Pick the best ones you think that will grade and be prepared for disappointment. It's very difficult. They err on the side of caution. If there's any question, details it is. Unless it's something from the 1700s. They will sometimes give decent old coins from 18th century a break. I've learned a lot submitting loose stuff myself. If it's worn and unnaturally shiny, no chance. MS details with fine scratches you may not see? No chance. Blast white, perfect details? Luster off? No chance. Tiny scratch? Corrosion? You guessed it. The list goes on. You learn to not submit much unless it's straight from the mint or a nice coin in a crappy holder that you want replaced with a fresh new scratch resistant so you can take a decent picture of the coin. You could come to the conclusion that a good majority of quality coins are already in slabs as that seems to assign the most trust and value in them aside from being great storage. Also gives a rough, general idea of population remaining for many. While not flawless, people for the most part trust them. Greysheet has bluesheet sections for values of sight unseen NGC and PCGS slabs. And obviously there's tons of sub $50-100 coins that will never be worth slabbing because it costs too much to do so unless somebody has a very specific low grade set going. There will always be plenty of loose, lower grade stuff to handle that's not counted in the surviving populations.
I've always been a proponent of "ya want it graded? Buy it graded". Use somebody else's money.........
Yeah you almost have to. Sending stuff in to be graded is about like playing scratch tickets to be honest. You get a winner once in a while but you'll slowly lose money in the process. One fantastic example, try flying eagle cents. Buy 100 of the best you can find and submit them. Be lucky if 10 straight grade. Anything loose seems to have been messed with in some way shape or form.
Amen! I am amused at my inability to detect old / mild cleanings, but to be fair, ICG (especially with the Cointalk member discount) (and ANACS when they have specials) provide a really important service to someone like me who is trying to learn how to better assess coins. I don't even know why, really, I'm interested, but I'm a curious person and I enjoy collecting, so I like to have some idea of what I'm looking at. I buy graded coins in all sorts of conditions if the price is right and I have the cash just to see what's going on with them. Here's one that I was curious about that I like. What's really weird to me about coppers is how they can have "altered" color. I can't tell that this has it, but NGC says it does, and I believe them!
Really you should be learning that a lot of dealers are well.... Regardless though the submitting should be a learning process and the amount of submitting should be dependent on what you come across. It's not even close to that. +/-1 or the occasional surprise sure. But the submitter needs to just get better if its like a lottery ticket If someone is lucky 10 straight grade out of 100 or even only 70 straight grade thats the time to learn more about the grading standards. If someone is lucky 10 straight grade that person not only has no business sending coins for grading but even buying raw coins like that.
I bring up the 1917 slq slabbed as a 1916. Seemingly genuine for all intents and purposes. I have reported this to pcgs recently. Maybe something will happen to this cert. These were taken from a recent ebay auction. I messaged the seller about it. He took the auction down. I think he knew it was wrong. Hoping no one would notice. It popped up in a saved search. I spotted it probably not long after it listed. It wasn't up long either.
