Tell me if I'm wrong but CAC did not want the volume that would come if they opened it up for all the TPG's. I'm thinking that they have times they can't keep up with just PCGS and NGC coins.
Not charley, but I'll take a stab at it. A cac sticker means that John Albanese will pay market price for a coin in a slab, a gold cac sticker means that he will pay more than market price. That's what it looks like from my house.
I think that the main motivation for giving CAC approval only to NGC and PCGS coins is marketing. It is pretty established in a large variety of collectors' minds that only NGC and PCGS graded coins are "good investments" if you are buying something expensive. "Treat the products from other services as raw coins" is the advice I hear. You can take this further and state that PCGS-CAC coins are the only pieces that "really count." The NGC-CAC approved coins are like the red-headed step child to the PCGS combo. The reasons for this are complex, but it's the way the market is.
That was what is was originally intended to mean. From that it has become, "The only coins worth buying have the PCGS-CAC approval. Everything else is 'dreck.'" (All coins without stickers are over graded and no good.)
In that case, my entire collection is dreck. What have i been doing with my life? Woe is me, woe, i tell ya...
Join the club. I am a charter member. I find it to be a lot more fun talking about the history, politics and economics that this grading stuff. You have to know how to grade so that you won't get totally ripped off. Therefore grading is a very important skill, but it's far from the only thing a collector needs to know to enjoy the hobby.
You're preaching to the choir. I grew up dirt poor, i work my tail off to not only provide for the family, but also have the means to pursue a hobby i enjoy. Sometimes I wonder if I'm even living on the same planet as most of our fellow numismatists.
Not far off, but only AFTER he has evaluated the slab, and only AFTER it has received a CAC blessing. Note that the gold does have a market price, though. Note CAC is also a dealer to dealer based market, and a significant quantity are sight unseen between dealers.
Interesting that there were no takers on my 1861 $20 gold piece question. I guess it's time for the reveal. The August Grey Sheet bid on an 1861 MS-62 double eagle $4,350. In MS-61, the bid is $3,100. The second coin I posted is graded AU-58. The bid for that piece is $2,136. As you can see 1 and 4 point grading differences mean a lot.
That may be part of it, but the simple fact is that they would be devaluing their own brand doing other services. There's already a gap with PCGS CAC and NGC CAC and that gap would be even larger if they did other services. It would be a very bad look for them to have PCGSS/NGC bids and then separate ones for the other services as you would be buried paying PCGS/NGC prices for those. Not to mention CAC was always supposed to be for expensive coins, collector interest is what ended up getting the cheaper coins stickered. The overwhelming majority of expensive coins are in PCGS/NGC
Charley, you said this statement was not correct - So I asked you to please tell us what was correct. Why can't you just answer the question Charley instead of going off on a bunch of tangents ? What 1865King said is correct, that is exactly what CAC does. And this is what CAC themselves says on their website - https://www.caccoin.com/ Which confirms what 1865King said. Now is that the only thing that CAC does ? No, it isn't, they also buy and sell coins, they are a coin dealer. But when it comes to their sticker, what 1865King said is precisely what they do.
As for the question you asked in your post - I'd say CAC itself is who benefitted by the creation of the company (CAC). Them, and nobody else. And ya can't blame 'em, it's a great business model. They get dealers to send them their coins and pay them to put a sticker on an existing slab - or not put a sticker on it. But they pay either way of course. And by the way, back in the beginning it wasn't just dealers who could submit coins to CAC, collectors could submit them as well. But they did away with that part of it once the money started rolling in and limited submissions to dealers only. Doing that allowed to keep overhead down by limiting the number of staff needed to keep up with things. Again, a good business model. They will still however buy coins, that have CAC stickers on them, from collectors. They're all too willing to do that. But have ya ever tried to sell coins to them Charley ? Or has anybody else ? I know of a few who did, and yeah they offered to buy 'em alright, at steeply discounted prices. Some of which were only about 40% of what current realized auction prices were at the time. A few others were higher than that, but all were well below current realized auctions prices. And yeah, I know, dealer buy prices are always lower, but typically only about 10-20% lower, depending on the coin of course. But of all the offers CAC made, only 1 was in that range. But when it comes time to sell, oh CAC sells 'em at a premium alright. Again, a good business model. It's like picking money off trees. Get paid to put stickers on slabs, get paid to buy coins that have stickers, and get paid again to sell coins that have stickers on them. Ya make money 3 different times on 1 coin ! It doesn't get much better than that ! Those are my thoughts Charley.
So "CAC holds coins to a higher standard..." Yet another set of standards. Joy. Given gradeflation, shouldn't it be "....a higher and higher standard..." ?
Collectors absolutely benefited from it and dont even get charged for things that don't sticker. It's a very cheap learning experience No, no they didn't. This isn't even remotely accurate
I agree it's John's choice but, his choice is the wrong choice. I wouldn't worry about putting money in his pocket or loss of potential profits. What his action does is put money in PCGS and NGC'S pockets by having collectors crack out coins from other services and submit them to either PCGS and NGC and then on to CAC so his profits go up. It's called cornering the market. I have no problem with the idea of CAC. I have a problem with how it excludes other services. A coin that's accurately graded as MS 63 no matter which service is still an MS 63 so it should not make a difference which grading service certified it. I admit I wouldn't want 10 grading companies but, making it look like the only coins that are graded properly are in either a PCGS or NGC slab is misleading. Expanding CAC to other grading services may force other services to fine toon their grading. If that happened it would be a plus to the collector world. I would like to add that the grading services provide a lot of stability in the collector world no matter what you collect. Before these services there were a lot of scumbags selling coins and cheating the collectors. Their still out there but not like in the past.
baseball21, posted: "That may be part of it, but the simple fact is that they would be devaluing their own brand doing other service [This is ABSOLUTE NOSENSE. THE COIN IS WHAT JOHN GRADES and offers to buy NOT THE SLAB! I'm 100% sure you remember a time when two TPGS and their customers thought it would "devalue the brand" if they graded problem coins and moderns. They were dragged kicking and screaming to provide what other TPGS were doing already.] There's already a gap with PCGS CAC and NGC CAC and that gap would be even larger if they did other services. [ What's this have to do with anything? Just as a PCGS bean is generally worth more than an NGC bean to many; an IGC/ANA bean would be worth less yet more than a coin w/o the bean]. It would be a very bad look for them to have PCGSS/NGC bids and then separate ones for the other services as you would be buried paying PCGS/NGC prices for those. [Simply add more bids. The folks involved in the TPGS "web" know the actual reasons only two services are "beaned."] Not to mention CAC was always supposed to be for expensive coins, collector interest is what ended up getting the cheaper coins stickered. The overwhelming majority of expensive coins are in PCGS/NGC." [With and w/o "beans. There is a simple reason for this"]
OK. I am impressed. Lets clear the air. I do not like and never have liked, your condescending manner in replying to other members. While you may be knowledgeable in some aspects , your method of dissemination of knowledge and snarky attitude is of no value. You continue with, first your original post to me, and we both know it was snarky, and you continue again, with the tangent BS. If your position is that the only benefit of CAC was to CAC, your prejudice is clear. If you actually believe that, then it is ignorance of the hobby and collecting. If you believe the entity purpose and desire is putting money in the coffers of NGC and PCGS, that tells me you did not refer to the thread I mentioned and that you have....again....no knowledge of CAC or PCGS or NGC as it applies to what you apparently think is monetary cooperation and dishonest business practices. I get it. You are indignant because CAC does not grade pieces from other services. There are sound reasons. I suspect you know this, and I suspect you know what operating cash is, and I suspect you (hopefully) understand the point of making a market. If you really believe all you state, then why not advocate publicly that all collectors should boycott NGC and PCGS and CAC, because they are simply only benefitting themselves and are involved in self serving questionable business practices bordering on numismatic monopoly. Do you really think that YOU not having a problem with CAC and their business model is important? My goodness. Do you understand the statement of CAC that you posted? Do you really believe this supports the statement of the member that I disagreed with? You do not know what you are talking about concerning this subject. You are actually asking me if I have "tried" to sell pieces to CAC? Really? I will be straightforward, again: I don't like your condescension, I do like your "ya see" or "ya ever" or your "So" or your "Oh blahblahblah alright" or your "yeah" this or your "yeah" that, or your other wordy say nothing down home just a friendly neighbor act. That is smarminess and using platitudes and attitudes to try to convince the reader that you know what you are preaching about. The rest of your comments are just a blowhard making himself appear important. The big fish in a little pond act gets old. It is fascinating to me that not one subject that has arisen on the Boards has resulted in you stating in some fashion" I didn't know that. Thanks". It is always a reply post with an air of a Shakespearean condescending tutorial. Ya understand? Because, ya see, I want ya to understand. So, ya see, that means we have nothing more to discuss. So yeah, I know I irritate you because I don't fall for the act.
