Another questionable CAC call

This coin cropped up on the PCGS blog. This almost a really nice 1795 Flowing Hair Half Dollar. The trouble is the "X". CAC put a green sticker on it. What do you think?





It might seem unfair, but random marks that happen during ordinary handling are part of the accepted. Intentional Marks, like this "X" are an issue.

If you want talk about net grading, my conservative net grade for this piece would be EF-45. I see no luster on this piece, therefore I can't call it AU. The "X" means more than 5 grading points to me. Given its nature, it pulls the value of the piece closer to VF.

Using Greysheet numbers, EF-40 bid is $4,600. VF-20 bid is $2,120. Usually a high end VF is priced closer to the VF-20 price than the EF-40 number.

What do you think?

 

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Not my wheelhouse, John, but is such a mark “acceptable” for a 226-year-old coin? PCGS and CAC both seem to say it is, intentional or not.

 

If you come at it from the angle that these companies are supposed to add confidence to "sight unseen" trading, not a good deal.

Though I think I could happily own this coin if the price was right...the x is toned over and the color is nice to my eye.

I don't think it should have CAC'd. JMO.

 

Try an sell a coin like that for EF money and see how acceptable it is. As a 60 year coin enthusiast, I an tell you buying is a lot easier than buying.

The guys who are willing to pay you tell you what is acceptable, not two detached grading services.

 

Grading services aside, it is not a coin that I would want to buy, for sure.

 

Add an "F" after the "X" and the grade would be redundant.

 

Looks like a mistake by the grading service and CAC. Will CAC "buy" a mistake like that to take it off the market?

 

The fact that CAC even exists speaks volumes about the state of the grading industry.

 

There is an argument to be made that it should have been XF Details - Graffiti
....I don't believe CAC should have stickered this coin....the coin still has nice character and I wouldn't mind it as a type example (if I was looking for a less expensive example with nice details but no where near the cost of a PCGS XF 40 with CAC).

 

Words to live by???

 

Sure looks like both services messed this one up. Four to six experts would have looked at this thing. Pretty strange.

 

Yes. When I was young and tried to sell coins when I wanted to take my collection in a different direction, I learned that problems, like this “X”, which didn’t mean anything when I was buying, were now of catastrophic importance and made my coins worth at lot less than I had been led to believe. The people at CAC know this even better than I do.

The way to buy is to purchase coins where price is the only bone of contention, not defects which give buyers an excuse to low ball you.

Marks that occur in circulation or during bag storage, are one thing. Intentional damage, like the “X”, is a lot more serious.

 

The grading firms either have a set of standards that apply or they don't. Meaning, a similar coin, say a 1916s Walking Liberty, would certainly be returned "details, scratched". As for CAC qualifying, absolutely not. For the same reason. Yet a fool is waiting to drop the premium on it.

 

Exactly the point.

 

Why did you use CAC? Personally, though I am new at 2 years into the coin collection hobby "expensive" I am obsessive compulsive as well but is it a good service, and can someone help me with those stickers they use? Not sure what green actually means.

 

I'm sure their standards are different for early American coins vs modern ones. If they used the same criteria for all then most early American coins would not straight grade.

 

Despite what they claim, the grading services DO NOT treat all submissions equally, for whatever reason. I have a beautiful, original, toned flowing hair that will grade higher than this coin in many respects. Submitted twice to NGC...first time VF30 and second time came back VF35 after I discussed it with them at the ANA in 2014. It is light years better than many of the XF dollars out there.

Also, I have a bust dollar that NGC graded repaired that both I and several dealers I had inspect cannot find any such repairs. Then this kind of stuff happens. Unfortunately, given the state of the market and collecting, certification is necessary if you ever intend to sell and to protect your heirs.

 

The Green sticker means that the coin meets their standards for the grade assigned. Originally it met that the CAC network of dealers will actively buy these coins although I am not aware of a formal price list that they use. It should be a guarantee that you will not end up with a problem coin or a coin that has been over graded in the holder.

The Gold sticker means that the coin is better than the grade assigned or at least far above average for the grade assigned. These stickers are rare.

The idea is that buying coins with the CAC approval are meet or exceed the PCGS or NGC assigned grade. CAC does not review any other brand of holders. If you buy a CAC approved coin, you might over pay for it, but the over grading is not part of the problem.

 

I do not know what coin is being referred to, but the basic premise that you present in the quoted statement as Numismatic Gospel is false and misleading and is no more or less than a rant based on personal prejudice and not based on reality and/or fact.

I don't think you have any knowledge of the factors leading to the formation of CAC or who was involved or the very open discussion and open requests for opinions and suggestions from the numismatic community during that process.

There is a very public record concerning this on the PCGS Board in the archives.