Barbers' (Sr. & Jr.) $1 Designs

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by JeffC, Aug 13, 2021.

  1. JeffC

    JeffC Go explore something and think a happy thought!

    This year, the Smithsonian released a privately struck medal whose design incorporated two different coins. The obverse shows the obverse of the 1878 $1 design by Charles Barber, and the reverse shows the reverse of the 1891 proposal by William Barber, the son. Both proposals, as we now know, were rejected in favor of Morgan's design.

    20210813_154721.jpg

    Upon seeing this, I became curious about the sides of the coins that were not available in this commemorative, meaning the reverse of that 1878 and the obverse of that 1891. But a Google search was fruitless. I couldn't find what those two proposed Barber $1 designs look like, in their entirety.

    Can you share a link wherein I can see both sides of each of these coins by the father and son? Or maybe you might somehow have a replica tribute?

    Finally - one more question. On that NGC label, it says "1878 m." What does the "m" mean?

    Thanks all.
     
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  3. JeffC

    JeffC Go explore something and think a happy thought!

    UPDATE: My search led me to The Barber Coin Collectors Society, and I wrote to them for information. Hopefully, they'll be able to help.
     
  4. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title]

  5. JeffC

    JeffC Go explore something and think a happy thought!

  6. KBBPLL

    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

    Minor correction - William Barber was the father and Charles was the son.
     
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  7. JeffC

    JeffC Go explore something and think a happy thought!

    OMG!!! Ooooops! LOL. Thanks.
     
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  8. KBBPLL

    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

    I can't find anything on an 1891 pattern dollar nor anything with that design on any denomination for 1891, and not on any other years I looked at on uspatterns.com. It's not on the list of pattern coins in Barber's personal collection (https://uspatterns.stores.yahoo.net/charbarpatco.html?viewfullsite=1 which doesn't mean it didn't exist). It seems odd that Charles Barber would be doing a pattern dollar in 1891.
     
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  9. JeffC

    JeffC Go explore something and think a happy thought!

    Yeah, isn't it weird that nothing much is available on the net? Well, let's see - maybe the Barber Coins Collector Society can help. Thanks for that link.
     
  10. Spark1951

    Spark1951 Accomplishment, not Activity

    @JeffC …perhaps “m” meaning “medal”. There’s a lot of verbiage on that label.
     
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  11. JeffC

    JeffC Go explore something and think a happy thought!

    Oh, yeah, maybe. I thought it must be quite a common abbreviation which I just didn't know, due to my experience level. Maybe, I'll contact NGC.
     
  12. JeffC

    JeffC Go explore something and think a happy thought!

    Imagine what Morgan Jr. and Sr. will think had they seen that label: "Barbers' Morgan Dollar."
     
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  13. Mac McDonald

    Mac McDonald Well-Known Member

    Generally like both, but the 1878 reverse is sort of a sickly-looking eagle to me...glad the Morgan won out.
     
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  14. KBBPLL

    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

    Roger Burdette says there was no discussion about changing the dollar in 1890/91 and he has nothing in his database. It could be from a medal or drawing, and might not have had another side. His verdict is "bogus". I agree that the concept of "Barbers' Morgan" is pretty lame. If there was actually a pattern coin struck with that design, we'd know about it. I briefly searched the Smithsonian collection and there are 531 hits for "Charles Barber". There are a lot of designs, drawings, and medals without images, and many undated, so maybe it's one of those. For 1891 there are just the known pattern pieces for the new 1892 denominations.
     
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  15. JeffC

    JeffC Go explore something and think a happy thought!

    Sort of reminded me of the eagles in those older German coins.
     
  16. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    The M stands for MINE, give it back okay... Nice.
     
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  17. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    The obverse of the "dollar" in the OP looks a lot like the pattern for the $50 gold piece or "half union." Here is a picture of that piece from "Wikipedia."

    1877 $50 Gold Pattern.jpg

    The coin was the center of a scandal that grew out of trade that future Treasury Secretary, William Wooden, made with the mint. He had both of the $50 gold piece patterns and the mint wanted them for the national collection. He gave them the coins in exchange for a "trunk full" of U.S. pattern coins. Wooden later wrote a book on patterns with Edger Adams circa 1913.
     
  18. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    Mom. Bring the children inside. This might be ugly
     
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  19. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    Brilliant
     
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