PCGS 3000 INDEX

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Chris Winkler, Aug 13, 2021.

  1. Chris Winkler

    Chris Winkler Well-Known Member

    I was poking around the PCGS website and noticed at the bottom they had gold & silver spot, and the PCGS 3000 index. I go to that page and notice this in the disclaimer, i won't post the whole thing;

    "...the PCGS3000® should only be used as one guide to rare coin prices and historical price movements, and not as the sole source for determining the value or market history of a particular coin."

    Then i look at the different timeline charts and the 10 year shows that the end of 2019 & early 2020 was the lowest periods. So is this saying coin prices in general were at their lowest and they were much higher in 2012-2015, or just certain rare coins? And now they are ticking back up?
    pcgs-3000-10-year.jpg
    Only because of covid did i decide to open my old box of coins i had not touched for 15 years & have been doing all i can to "catch up" on coins i like. So should most of what i have purchased go up in value according to the trend of the chart?
     
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  3. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    Hodl.
     
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  4. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank



    ?/

    or yup.
     
  5. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    Chris:
    Rare coins have been in an upward trend for most of the last 18 months.

    Folks at home, not spending money, so they buy coins.

    Or that is what the news says
     
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  6. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Also keep in mind that the PCGS graph isn't based at zero, so it exaggerates fluctuations.
     
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  7. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    It should be mandatory that all charts be displayed upside down.
     
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  8. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Never mind. Tried to copy and paste the 1 year, 3 year, and all-time charts, but the images I got were from 2017. Serves me right, I guess.
     
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  9. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    I will repeat, because I can:
    HODL.
     
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  10. CygnusCC

    CygnusCC Roping the Learns Supporter

    How very cryptic :)
     
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  11. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    I try. God knows I try. But then the Irish takes over, and wham.....
     
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  12. CygnusCC

    CygnusCC Roping the Learns Supporter

    I was trying to be funny. It didn't work.
     
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  13. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    No, no, no...it DID work. That's why I mentioned the Irish spelling.
     
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  14. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

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  15. CygnusCC

    CygnusCC Roping the Learns Supporter

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  16. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    Nope, it was a perfect attempt, as it applies to the PCGS 3000 Index.
     
  17. CygnusCC

    CygnusCC Roping the Learns Supporter

    Hah, meant mine, not yours. :hilarious: Ok, I'm going to step away before I cause a fist fight. Lol
     
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  18. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    Yes, that is the way I interpreted it. Seems we agree. We are both funny....
     
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  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    That particular page represents the price trend of the coin market as a whole over that particular time period. But, it's not showing you the whole story either. This is what that same page looked like in 2018.

    index10graph.gif


    In other words, the coin market as a whole dropped in value a good bit further than what the page you looked at shows you. Short and sweet, from 2008 to Jan of 2020 was the longest lasting bear market for US coins that there has ever been. By the end of 2019 coin values, as a whole, had dropped to where they were back in 2003. And that was after a bull market that had started in 2001, (after being basically flat for 12 years), reached it's peak in 2008, and then continued to fall off a cliff for 12 years.

    And yes, for the past 18 months the market for US coins has finally turned around.
     
  20. halfcent1793

    halfcent1793 Well-Known Member

    Graphs like these don't really mean that much. That huge drop from '08-'18, where it looks like coin values fall off a cliff, actually is less than 23%. Not insignificant, but about what the auction house takes on top of your bid.

    Plotting an incomplete Y-axis like this makes for a very misleading report. A lot of people call it a "gee-whiz" graph because it magnifies small differences.

    Another aspect of these price/time graphs is that price is too often presented on a linear scale, whereas it should be presented on a log scale. If coin A increases from $1 to $10, it increases 10X. If coin B increases from $1000 to $10,000, it also increases 10X. You may think "big deal" if your $1 coin goes to $10, but WOW if your $1000 coin goes to $10,000, but the change is the same. It also seems worse if a $10,000 goes down to $1000 than if a $10 coin goes down to $1, but if you spend equal amounts on the A and B coins, you'll do equally well (or badly).

    Here is a graph I did a few years ago that illustrates this.
     

    Attached Files:

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  21. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    This. This guy gets it.

    Logarithmic-scale graphs are only confusing because people aren't used to them. For things like prices, they're much more useful than linear-scale graphs.
     
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