Why aren't there more minority collectors and dealers?

As a member of a so-called [demographic] 'minority' group, I've always wondered why there aren't more minority coin collectors and dealers at shows. I regularly attend local shows and the big one at Baltimore three times a year. Thus far, I have met only one other Chinese-American numismatist, a vest pocket dealer. I see few (or no) Asians, African Americans and Latinos circulating the bourse. The same goes for dealers. If they are out there, I have never met them. Even most of the women I see appear not to be collectors, but rather look to just be tagging along with their husbands and/or kids.

I see a decent number of women on the other sides of the table. But with a few notable exceptions, (I have met husband and wife teams where the wife is every bit as knowledgeable and can talk about coins just as intelligently with customers), the women are just there to keep their husbands company and watch out for thieves (they are the ones reading books, knitting, etc, and when you ask a serious question, they ask you to wait for their husband to return-which is fine).

I am cognizant of the obvious fact that white males are the largest demographic group (with the exception of their female counterparts), and so it should be expected that they are most represented in the field/hobby (both as dealers and collectors). But other minority groups seem to have a disproportionately lower presence relative to their comparative numbers in the general population. So what do you think? Are my personal observations representative of what you have seen in your experience? If I am basically on the mark, why do you think there aren't there more minorities in numismatics? Don't all people, irrespective of background, have an equal propensity towards being passionate about numismatics (sort of a rhetorical question)? Thanks for your insights.

 

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As a member of the minority, most minorities arent aware of what the coins are worth and the ones that do hoard them, they dont buy any, unless extremely cheap and they keep them to give to their kids or use as loans for collateral.
We just find coins more of a bussiness I guess.
However msot are uneducated about them, most of my best pickups have been from minortities who thought old coins are not worth anything anymore lol.

 

Might depend on the area you live too??? I'm in the Los Angeles area, which is extremely diverse, and I see many so-called minority collectors at shows.

 

I agree...demographics plays somewhat of a role, but where else can you see more multi-culturalism than in Toronto.
That being said, your right, it seems to be predominately a caucasian hobby, but quite frankley Im so accustomed to multi-culturalism that I never keep score. Honestly I dont scan a coin show room and take a census based on race. I never thought it as an important issue
On another note if this helps, I did just buy some coins from a chinese dealer on ebay 2 nights ago from Vancouver, with a last name of Cheung.

 

There are several factors. Other cultures channel their kids more into sports or other activities, so never get into collecting as kids. 90%+ of coin dealers got exposed to the hobby when they were young.

Some neighborhoods aren't safe areas to have an extensive personal coin collection or to have a store front coin shop. As a percentage, more of these unsafe places are minority neighborhoods.

There is also the "good old boys and girls club" that dominates the show circuit. A dealer needs to have suppliers, and that doesn't just mean showing up with cash or a line of credit. It requires a level of trust and personal relationship. For the new dealer, that often means some hard ball negotiating. Folks that look different, or are from a different culture may have to work twice as hard to get the same wholesale prices as someone that looks the same as the other dealers.

 

I'm African-American. Started collecting as a kid after my grandfather gave me a 1918 Wheatie... returned to the hobby recently after many years. I always liked things that predated me, especially if they were commonplace, and I could picture my ancestors and older living relatives using them.

I know from other pursuits -- professional and otherwise -- that it can be awkward to be the only minority, or the only African-American, or one of a handful, in a given situation. In such cases, I look for someone I at least have a passing acquaintance with through e-mail correspondence and/or phone contact. That helps immeasurably. Otherwise I kind of see what the vibe is, and go from there.

I haven't been to a coin show yet. I'm sure what I'll probably do when I get to one is to approach dealers I've purchased from online a few times, and people I've been in contact with at CT.

 

It doesn't matter to me what color skin you may have or what nationality you may be, as long as you aren't a jerk you are OK in my book.

Many times throughout the years I have been looked down on a treated with disrespect because of the way I look, everything ranging from contempt to outright distrust to even, rarely, true hostility. I HOPE that is not what is happening to the "minoritys" (we're all humans) who may want to be involved in this hobby.

 

This is an interesting question/comment and

This is an interesting question/comment and I to have wondered about it greatly.

In the last ten years since I ran the Knoxville show I was always struck by the hobby's mostly older (45 plus) single male attendies and participants.
During this period I can only think of 3 or 4 regular black attendies, maybe 3 Asian and a couple dozen women as a general rule. Never a black dealer, never an asian and never a women (by themselves) as a dealer vest pocket of otherwise. A few women have set up with men to help maybe 6 or so every now and then usally as wives or girlfriends of course.

I am not certain why this is but here my 2-cents worth.

1. Minorities were simply not as exposed to coin colleting to begin with, in other words : "if it is mostly older white males now then it was all older white males in the 50's and 60's that past down interest in coins to who they knew, younger white males".

2. Economics: You have to admit it takes some dispposably income to pursue coin collecting. White males seem to have as much if not more than most, at least historically, extra cash.

3. This area (East Tennessee) is not a hot bed of minorities to begin with.

4. Women anyway (rather than males) are just not drawn to coin collecting by nature. It's not anything "for them" - they don't see the point.

Now I'm just thinking of what I have seen in this area - I suspect it may be much different in other more diverse parts of the country.

 

......perhaps the interest isn't there! i don't think there is any force not allowing

anyone to be a dealer, collector or anything like that at all. the same as any other hobby.

some individuals are interested and some are not, minority or majority.

 

Weird question, and one I never really thought about before. But, now that I am thinking about it it does seem odd there aren't more. Where I live in So Cal for example, I'm literally the minority (caucasion). Yet at coin shows I attend, I rarely see anything other than, as crude as it sounds, white people. Hispanics make up the majority of my community's population and though they make as good a living as anyone else here, they seem more frugal. Nothing wrong with that, but frugalness and coin collecting don't go hand in hand. Of course, many of my neighbors have 30 and 40 foot boats and I don't, so I guess they spend differently.
Guy~

 

I'd get mad, but I can't figure out why other women aren't more involved either. My two main passions are coins and knitting.

It's common, even expected, for a guy to be the seller at the yarn festivals, even though nearly all the customers are women.

But a woman dealer at a coin show must be waiting for her husband to get back. And I'm often the only female collector at the show that isn't a tag-along to her husband-collector.

I will say I've never been looked down on or treated badly at a coin show or in any coin shop I've been in, but I wish more women would get involved.

 

I'd like to add the following point:

I think there is an intrinsic attraction to collecting coins that is a bridge to the past. We are somehow able to touch and feel something that was also used by past generations. There is a link to our founding fathers, and earlier times where perhaps life was better, or more simple.

Certainly if you hold a coin from 1861 in your hand, you might consider that the coin was minted during the civil war. You think of that time period as majestic, same goes for pretty much any 19th century coin.

Coin collecting really picked up in the early 20th century. These are the people who passed their knowledge and passion to future generations. I will say that during this time period, black people did not have an easy time. Certainly they didn't have as much disposable income as they have today. The same goes for women of the time.

I'd like to further add that perhaps a black person does not feel the same inside when they think back to the 1800's. Why would they have a passion for a time period when they were slaves. Women could not vote etc. I know that in school everyone is trained to appreciate our founding fathers, and I've never seen a black person specifically speak out against them, but I think maybe some of them don't feel the same inside when they hold an older coin in their hand.

As for Latino's or Asians, most would not have a connection with the early days of the US. I bet they would be more inclined to collect coins from their native country, even though their family might have lived in the US for many generations.

 

As a person that has been into coins for well over 60 years now, I've done some sort of investigating into this subject. I go to about 2 to 4 coin shows a month and at times they are so repetitious, I get a little bored and so some people checking. By that I mean I start looking at just who is here and sometimes even stick my nose into someone else's thoughts about who is here and why.
As already noted coin shows in many areas are basically elderly Caucation individuals. At times almost 90% of the customers appear to be over 50 years old. About 95%, 40 to 50 years of age is the average dealer and also, Caucation males. At times 2 or more female dealers but those are usually with a husband or some other male companion. In the Chicago area the races, religions, etc are as wide spread as possilbe yet so few others aside from those elderly Caucations appear at coin shows. African Americans, Orientals and Hispanics are very, very rare at all of these shows and few if ever as dealers.
There are possibly numerous reasons for this though. As already noted many neighborhoods are still rather on the one race type only in large cities and those have a record of numerous crime rates. This is not what you would normally consider a coin collecting invironment.
The reason for the elderly appearances at coin shows is due to several reasons. Older people just don't like the internet and many don't know how to use it. Many elderly don't trust buying a coin you can't really see in person. Our younger population spends more time buying and selling coins via the internet so they don't bother going to coin shows.
Women just have other interest due to upbringing. Just how many people try starting a little girl with coins compared to little boys. Girls get dolls and clothing and boys get guns, coins, tanks, planes, etc. Then too as women get older they tend to think stuff like house cleaning, raising kids, shopping for groceries, side job for addition money for the family clothing are all more important than coin collecting. Makes no CENTS to gents I guess.
I suspect that some ethnic groups feel unconfortable at a coin show of primarily Caucation, elderly individuals and feel they will be taken advantage of due to this minority status. Therefore just don't go after one experience.
Regarless of any real of assumed reasons for who is into this hobby, why, where, it is all our responsibilities to always remember this is a hobby and should be just for fun and shared equally amonst all of us.
Of course if you try to get a coin I need instead of me, that is different you know. :hammer::vanish:

 

I go to shows in houston and I can say that even in a city with quite a large minority population, there are very few minorities at the shows here...I dont know why there arent more, never gave it thought and probably still wont. If they want to jump in and collect, more power to them.

 

Well, as I said above, the historic value for me as a black person is specifically related to what my own ancestors -- and their peer groups -- were using on a daily basis.

I picture my grandfather, who was a sharecropper, using some Barber Halves to buy grain and other supplies. My mother and her siblings found time to go to the movies, even in rural Mississippi of the 1930s and '40s, so I can imagine them using Barber Quarters, SLQs or Mercury dimes to get tickets, buy popcorn, etc.

I can't say I have any interest in the coinage of the late 18th century or the first 65 years of the 19th, as some of those pieces might literally have been used to buy or sell my forebears. As I compile my U.S. year sets based on key birthdates of family members, I'm content to start in 1890 (the approximate year of my maternal grandfather's birth; his birth records were lost).

 

My neighborhood is 99% African-American, and I don't find it to be particularly crime-ridden. Incidents happen occasionally, but usually at 3 in the morning in some secluded area like an alley among a couple of guys in their 20s.

The precautions I take with my coins, or anything else I care about, are similar to the ones I would take anywhere. I don't have obviously coin-related materials sent to my house. I don't talk to anyone about being a collector. I don't have a stream of people coming in and out of the house. Any coins that I consider extremely valuable will go into a safe deposit box. There's no safe in my house, so I don't want to have one delivered and signal to everyone that I have a lot of valuables or cash to hide. And I have a dog. He's not big (lab/beagle mix), but he's loud.

 

Just to preface - long post, but this topic really got me thinking, not just about the races-in-numismatics topic, but what motivates and gets all of us into the hobby in the first place (which I think is really the key to answering this).

I think this, in addition to your previous post on this thread really is getting to the heart of it. Most of the time, coin collecting is "passed down" from father to son, and most of the time, the main interest is in the time period which matters to you, or that you can relate to.

Your comment about your "start date" got me thinking about it. I've never really been interested in anything beyond the 1870's - 1890's (just coincidence our dates are similar), which is when my great-grandparents came to the U.S. My initial interest was always in those coins I could look at, and hold, and picture my great-grandparents (and grandparents and parents a bit later), using the very same coinage when they were at-the-time-modern issues. So for those without as much US History, say someone whose parents emigrated to the U.S. in the 1970's, they would typically need to pick up the "numismatical urge" on their own, as opposed to following in dad's footsteps.

Also figure that even in the mid-20th century, the country was about 85% white, 11% black, and 4% all others. I'm no expert on how things were before my time (born in '75), but my guess is that in a lot of places, shop owners weren't all that welcoming back in the bad ol' days for black americans. This would help to supress interest to a degree, and for the other races, their numbers were very low until more recent years, thus, the "American History" isn't there for them (as nostalgia seems to be a big part of coin collecting for many of us).

All in all, what it means is that there is a longer history, and higher percentages of white collectors, but likely there is a newer and growing future of other races, some of whose own great grandchildren will be holding up a zinc 2009 penny one day, saying, "This was Great-Great-Great Grandfather's from his first years in the United States, back on Earth. They made coins out of metal then, and only produced hundreds of millions to billions of each issue, not like the mass-produced carbon-fiber coins of today's Galactic Federation". Really, I think its just a matter of scale and generations. Every decade that goes by will likely see a rapid diversification of non-caucasian races in the hobby.

 

I believe the preferred term is Asian; Orientals are rugs!

I try to get my High School students interested by bringing in collector boards and all my extra dollars when I search the latest Pres rolls. It's probably more of a teen thing than black thing (90% of them are black) but more than a few of them were very disappointed after collecting all the state quarters because they began under the false impression that they would win something if they got them all! (At first I really thought they were kidding!)

 

It is now, it wasn't that long ago that Oriental was the common term. The problem is the common terms keep changing. In my lifetime the common term for our largest minority has gone from the "dreaded N word", to negro, to person of color, to black, to African-American. And there are some who complain about that last one so it may change again soon. Although frankly I don't care. People are people. I once had a collector in the shop who asked me "I'm Jewish. Does that matter to you sell me coins?" I said "No. I'm an Atheist, does that matter to you buying coins from me?" "No", "Good, then let's look at some coins."

 

While I have no answer for the OP I need to state that its time this world eliminated any and all racial designations. There simply is no need other than to incite "difference".

People are simply people and some of us share the same obsessions. I tend to hang with folks that have the same obsession as me because then I don't feel so weirdly obssessed!