So I had NGC return a non-authentic coin. Thankfully, got my money back out of it. I know some people collect these for education purposes to help better detect coins like this, and some of these might even be a fully gold coin to have at least a bullion value. I have a good precision scale and the coin showed 33.48 G in weight, but I understand precise measurements must also match up the dimension to the weight. I hear that specific gravity tests and also more advanced methods can look deeper into the coin, but really didn't want to spend money on that sort of thing. 1. If truly 90 - 99% gold, what is this worth to other collectors? 2. What methods would you employ to fully verify what exactly is in this coin? Also, I have heard about all the gold clad tungsten bars, but also that it's not quite feasible to do this to smaller coins. Curious on folks take on whether tungsten is being used in some of these fakes.
They no longer use real bullion int he fakes. Its largely scrap metal. http://coins.about.com/od/worldcoins/ig/Chinese-Counterfeiting-Ring/
There is really no way to tell how pure the piece is without a melt assay... the older fakes are mostly of the proper mixture... the newer stuff.... well... hence the melt assay.
Hi ya Dutchman, I've heard it said before that some of the older fakes were the proper mixture of gold and I wonder why? Anyone
It's quite simple really and there is more than 1 reason. First and foremost - seigniorage. Seigniorage is the difference between the cost of the bullion plus minting expenses and the value as money of the pieces coined. In other words, the cost to make a gold coin might be $17.50 - but as money it is worth $20. So anybody who makes the coins stands to make a tidy profit just by making them. Another reason is that for many years it was illegal to own gold in this country. But it was legal to own certain gold coins as part of a collection. So full blown factories sprung up in the middle east during this period of time when gold could not be owned in the US. They produced the gold coins by the millions, all with the correct amount of gold. The coins were then sold, at a profit, to those who wished to own gold. And it wasn't just the coins of the US that were being made. But the coins of all countries. Some of the coins were so good that they even fooled mint officials into thinking they were genuine. Yet another reason is because of numismatic value. If a given gold coin is worth say $350 in gold value alone, but sells for over $1000 because of its scarcity - what better way to fool somebody into thinking the coin is genuine than by making it of the correct gold content.
That's really something, G! Are there any left, as in have you ever come across one or anyone else? Also, is there a specific gold coin that was made more than any others? For all anyone knows, especially a new collector like myself knows, I may already have one. If the gold content is the same then it makes it really difficult to tell and anyone can buy these. If there's any left. Interesting stuff. :thumb:
Here's about the best I could do under 250k. They appear to have scuffed it up during the process. I recalled this coin being in much better condition going in. Maybe just my imagination, but wonder if might do that intentionally. Who knows...
GoldCoinLover had an interesting post on counterfeit gold awhile back... read it here: http://www.cointalk.com/t56522/
Very informational post and glad you got your money back. Much thx for posting!! Counterfeits like this one are exactly the reason practically all of my pre-1933 US gold is either PCGS or NGC certified. Only one is not...a 1904-S $20 Lib ANACS that I just couln't resist because of its original surface.
They still make the seniorage gold coins in some of the refugee camps in the middle east, most of them go to egypt, saudi arabia, jordan and the gulf countries mainly United arab emirates. Most palestinian refugee camps in syria, jordan and lebanon still make them. The prices are cheap according to my grandpa but im positive you cant bring them into the US. But gold is significantly cheaper in the Middle East. The original ones from the 80's were made in lebanon during the civil war by all warring factions (Except for israel). However the coins are cheap compared to the authentic and they mainly focus on krugerannds, chinese pandas and 1800's US gold, and occasionally silver pandas.
