Hazy proof coins...

I guess the point I was making was that toning can happen without hazing and hazing is not the only kind of toning that happens. All silver will eventually tone in air. Not all of them will haze. Then there is purple haze.

 

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This may be common knowledge to you (and most people), but I bring it up because it was new to me when I read it. Toning, if allowed to continue, is a progressive event. As oxidation grows, its index of refraction changes which disperses different frequencies of the visible light spectrum.

It begins with a white haze (all colors), then progresses through the light spectrum as its thickness grows. The most colorful natural examples developed slowly, over a long period of time.

There's obviously much more to the subject than that, but that was the nugget that stuck with me. When I view toned coins now, I visualize the the thickness of oxidation as a function of color.

 

Many people erroneously believe that Mint packaging is "air tight".

 

The color on that piece might have come from gases trapped in the flat pack with the coin. I opened one like that in the 1970s. As soon as I cut it open, I got pungent whiff of gas. The nickel was colored blue.

 

This, I was not aware of but makes perfect sense.

 

toning is actually more like this as I understand it, as far as the cycle goes, but thickness and color spectrum (what you see) is spot on. as it thickens and cycles though, it goes from pastel shades, to primary and fluorescent colors until it darkens out to terminal black.


hoping this don't get a copyright problem, it belongs to Sunnywood of course.


this article has a chart with these colors as well as the nm thickness for them
http://www.1881o.com/assets/physics-of-the-toning-progression-of-rainbow-morgans.pdf

 

Thanks...that helps alot! I was describing my understanding of an article I read some years ago.

 

Maybe it got exposed to carbon, or cee oh tooo, that stuff's the devil.

 

As far as skipping colors my understanding this had more to do with the sulfur contaminant (how much of it) and length of exposures.

Like a non-smoking household, never burns anything, far removed from the kitchen or gas burners may never visibly tone due to less exposure to contaminates in the air, while a smoking household, nearer the gas stove, may have (will have) a higher level of hydrogen sulfide and sulfur dioxide in the air particulates of the house which will contribute to the coin toning given time.
And opposed, no particulates, low moisture or oxygen, very little toning even over a century. Storing a coin in a nitrogen environment free of sulfides and oxides, and there should be no toning at all for the next forever until it's opened and exposed.

While maybe sticking a silver coin in a sulfide holding container, it may send it to terminal toning in under a minute and skip all of the colors because the exposure is so high.

the cycle does show repeating variables of the same colors, as it runs the stages to terminal toning, totally possible I believe to sit at a specific thickness to get a uniform color, and possible to darn near skip colors by blowing past them rapidly. Also possible depending on the coins surface and strike for a coin to build thickness heavier in some areas like fields, and build up lighter on devices.

It's one of the tells for Questionable Color and Artificial Toning, there SHOULD be evidence of a progression over time of the layer buildup in thickness and when there isn't then it's likely suspect, uniformity of appearance is likely suspect. It's not the rule of course, the environment is the factor at play, but it's an indication of monkey business being afoot when it's all the same color and doesn't show signs of any of the earlier stage colors at all.

Mostly why the graders will use Questionable Color or Questionable Toning on slabs instead of flat out calling it artificial. It's suspect, but they can't prove it conclusively as artificially toned. so they go with the "we don't like it, it don't look right" route.

One more thing, I'm not an expert, just a hobbyist and learning and reading a lot on this subject recently, because like the original poster, I too have a toning/haze problem to an extent. instead of fighting it anymore I decided to just try to figure it out.

I think because this is happening at the molecular level, there's electron exchanges between the molecules in the air and the molecules of the silver coin or any metal really, no packaging is going to protect a coin forever short of an environment free of oxides and sulfides (for silver) like a vacuum or a air tight vessel that has been pumped full of some other pure gas that isn't oxygen and won't give or take electrons from the silver. Toning is an eventuality, maybe not now, may not for 100 years or more, but at some point it's going to happen unless you are dipping coins to remove it, or just happened upon ideal conditions and got lucky or went to extremes to avoid it happening and even then, it's probably an eventuality given enough time.
JMHO.

 

Just as a quick aside...if an atom loses an electron, it becomes positive...if an atom gains an electron, it becomes negative...the attraction between the negative anion (A Negative ION) and the positive cation is the basis of an ionic bond which makes a material that is different from either of the starting reactants.

 

For this reason I have decided to not buy from the mint anymore and only buy coins that are slabbed and at least 2 years old.

 

I somewhat agree with that. Though I buy more "raw" coins than slabbed, I only have one. I find with slabbed coins most people buy the slab not the coin. They sure are nice to look at however

 

I have been hearing this from you since the day I joined, and couldn't agree more. I think this is a statement that most need to hear on a regular basis. For me though, unlike the forced hazed that I did on the coin below, I think that haze in a mnt package is nothing more than an improperly rinsed planchet

I pushed this one along. It has sat in a plastic flip for two years next to a window in my green house.. I was hoping for toning but only got haze.


Yes, this is a form of gassing. I just wanted to experiment on a brilliant red coin in a bad environment.

 

Interesting. Thanks for sharing that mate

 

Maybe the mint outsourced to China!