Latest TPG submission from with a real variation of results...

The 3 coins imaged were submitted for authentication/ certification this past spring.





After a little over a month they were received back with the following results:






Of the three, the 1857 is a counterfeit documented by NGC, the 1793 is a genuine and pedigreed countermarked S-11c large cent, and the 1797 is a recent struck counterfeit.

Not knowing anything about their process it would be interesting to know how many graders saw each coin or if they went through individuals separately.

The 1793 will be resubmitted to a different TPG hopefully for authentication as genuine...

 

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Man, That Sucks.
The 1797 is Seen genuine from PCGS and Seen as a counterfeit from NGC?
That sucks a lot More.

 

If I understood correctly, the coins have only been submitted to PCGS so far. They detected the 1857 counterfeit, but graded the 1797 as “genuine - env damage”.

The 1857 large cent is a well-known CF which is documented on NGC’s web site:
https://www.ngccoin.uk/news/article/4923/Counterfeit-Detection-1840-1857-Large-Cents/

it appears the 1797 cent is not yet well known or documented though. @Jack D. Young please keep me honest

 

@Jack D. Young stated the 1793 to be genuine and pedigreed, therefore by inference they are documented and well known.

@Jack D. Young I'm assuming you didn't submit directly as the TPG's know you well for submitting CF's for authentication

 

I did not comment on the 1793 cent, but on the 1797 ;-)

 

@micbraun yer, my bad, I realised after posting that I misread, I went to adjust, but you were on it. Sorry mate

 

The 1797 is documented in my article at: https://coinweek.com/counterfeits/live-or-memorex-a-dark-side-struck-counterfeit-1797-large-cent/

 

I found this article, but wasn’t sure it’s the same CF. Thanks for confirming.

 

Actually the 1797 was in a genuine NGC slab; ICG saw it as counterfeit, PCGS not so much...

 

Have you ever tried posting this stuff on PCGS? I suspect the threads would get deleted and eventually (or perhaps quickly?) you'd be banned.

 

I've been lucky so far with Large cents, I have only run into one counterfit/modified coin, and I bought that knowing it was a fake (my 1815 lol) but then on all 3 of those dates I expect "genuine" is probably the best I'll ever own, my 57 is a genuine-details coin and my 98 would be lucky to grade ag-2 lol

 

Are you saying all 3 slabs contain the same exact counterfeit coin or all 3 slabs contain a different counterfeit coin each struck by the same counterfeit die?

 

Same exact "coin" @justafarmer .

 

@Jack D. Young basically doesn't submit personally anymore as they all know his proclivity for submitting counterfeits, he submits the same coin multiple times to test them out. Which is fair considering how much they charge to 'authenticate' these days.. Would that be correct Jack?

 

So you are saying if Jack submitted a coin for grading the TPG's standard operating procedure is to attribute it as counterfeit?

 

I would have grabbed that 1797 in a heartbeat. Shows you all how dumb I can get sometimes

 

There is only one obverse die known for 1857 Large Date and the fake coin submitted does not match it based on date position. The hair curl, one of the biggest features in attributing late date LCs interestingly does not exist on the counterfeit.

Really a shame how good the die struck counterfeits are getting for some of the early dates.

 

Nope, Jack works with the TPG's in counterfeit education and identification and they know if he submits a coin they have to look closer.. lol

I think they should be as vigilant with ALL coins submitted, not just his.

 

@Lueds I no longer submit directly to PCGS and forfeited my membership with them. I agreed to not submit another of the deceptive counterfeits to NGC a while back as a result of a working arrangement of research with them. Unfortunately ANACS hasn't been able to tell the difference between the genuine and deceptive struck fakes; I submit low grade early copper to them (genuine ones) as they are pretty good with grading and attribution verification for them. I send examples I would like in a "counterfeit holder" to my friends at ICG for use in exhibits and show-and-tells.

 

I have not; I find this an open minded forum and not slanted to one side or the other.