Hi all, Some of you may recall this story from the summer. I have a friend (call him "A") in the following situation: His wife's brother (call the wife "W", and his wife's brother "B") was a small time collector who passed away about 10-15 years ago, "B" left to "W" his collection. About six years ago "W" passed away, and so my friend "A" has the collection. A has always wanted to cash it in the use the money for his kids. Luckily for me, he never got around to it . . . after talking to me, he agreed to let me handle it. Almost all of it is I guess what is called "junk silver" -- that is, mostly stuff in the G to VG range, mostly from 1900-1964 -- this includes Mercuries, Roosies, Washington .25, Walking Liberty, and Franklins. And a couple of Barbers. There are no keys or even semi-keys. I'm going to purchase that whole lot from him at melt, and we're both happy. (This may seem boring to many of you . . . but as for me, since prior to this year I collected almost exclusively via pocket change, I've never owned a Franklin or Walker before, or a Barber of anything, and this experience has ramped up my interest in coins to new areas). Here's where the story gets interesting even for you pros . . . he also has a decent (well, for me decent) Morgan and Peace collection. There was a thread a while back about the 1928-P Peace Dollar in there. 'nuff said on that. Now, as for the Morgans . . . my first pass through them I saw three semi-minor keys: 1883-cc, 1884-cc, and 1890-cc. I have no experience at all at grading Morgans, but I would guess that the first and last were around G-6, and the 1884-cc at, perhaps VF/XF. (I'll post pix sometime) I also know nothing about VAM's. I guess I'd better learn a lot before I evaluate the other Dollars. I also know next-to-nothing about slabbing. Not being a dealer or big-time collector, I presume my best option -- if I want to get them graded -- is to bring them to a dealer and have them submit it? (Please correct me if I'm wrong). Assuming all this is somewhat correct -- at what point is getting them graded worth it? How much would it cost me, and how much would it benefit me? What's the difference in value for those coins raw-vs-graded? Thoughts? ============ Full disclosure: my friend "A" is so happy that I found some worthwhile pieces, he told me that either I can purchase them from him at a deep discount, or I could sell them, and he'd split the proceeds with me since I'm doing all the work. His half of the money will go to his kids as a final present from their mother. My plan is to sell the above mentioned dollars, and use that to finance my purchase of everything else he has.
Generally, I see recommendations to not bother slabbing until the coin is in the $300 range. Are you planning on selling these coins? If not, slabbing probably doesn't even make sense then.
Sorry I wasn't clear. Yes -- I want to sell the 1928 Peace (which I will get graded I think), and I want to sell the 1883-cc G/VG, 1884-cc F/XF, and 1890-cc G/VG. The short version of my question is: are those specific Morgans worth getting graded?
The Morgans are definitely not worth slabbing. It costs roughly 40-50$ with insurance and shipping. The 90-CC (the best date you have) is probably worth around $100 maybe a tad more. You would get that on Ebay slab or not.
Im my opinion no. In that grade we handle them raw all of the time and they are quite common. I don't see how grading them does anything for the value or their saleability as they are pretty easy coins to sell raw. For me the only way I would send the 1928 in was if there was a question about it's authenticity or if the coin appeared to be mint state.
I use $200 as the benchmark but it really does depend on the coin. I have no problem with seeing MS65 common date Morgan's being sent in for certification because they are quite bit more valuable than the MS64's. Using the same philosophy, I see no reason to certify a low MS grade common date SLQ's. There really is no difference in value between and MS62 & MS63 for these coins.
Here's my rule-of-thumb: 1. I grade the coin. 2. I look up its value (generally in the greysheet). 3. I use that value to determine how much a TPG will charge to slab it. 4. If the charge (plus estimated round trip S&H) is less than 10% of the coin's value, then I consider it worth slabbing. That generally means the coin has to be worth at least $250-300.
That is a tad bit conservative... you have to remember not ONLY do they charge for grading, but there is also their insistence that you pay insurance and shipping (hefty addition). I mean specials aside, its more like $40-50. Which means (at your 10% formula) $400 In any case I agree with you, 10% or no deal.
I just did some quick math, and assuming I didn't blunder, here's what I came up with: 1. TPG = NGC (I use them since I belong to the ANA) 2. Grading Tier = Ecomony ($16 per coin, minimum 5 coins) = $80 3. Postage/Handling = 4-6 coins is $8.50 (Registered) times 2 (I have to ship to NGC) = $17 4. Insurance = 5 coins worth $250 each is $1250 which costs $15.80 times 2 = $31.60 Bottom line = $80 + $17 + $31.60 = $128.60 Divide by 5 = $25.72 each So 5 coins worth $250 each can be done for about 10% of the total value. And remember, I'm using greysheet (wholesale) values. If you use retail values (like Coin Values) then a coin with a $250 value is actually worth less in the greysheet. OR A $250 greysheet coin will be valued more than $300 in Coin Values which kicks you up to a higher and more expensive tier at NGC. It takes a bit of planning.
Well how about this more accurate scenario.. PCGS style (since I often send in 1 coin at a time) Economy (20-30 days) $18.00 ... from the PCGS website current cost Handling fee $8.00 Insurance for a coin 0-100$ in value $17.60 _________________________________ That comes to $43.60 And that is economy ... typically I do the 15 day option which would blast this up to $55.60 nevermind if you want express.... Truth be told, to grade 1 coin at PCGS it is going to cost you around $40-50. unless (as I said) there is a special
It appears that most who have shared their opinion in this poll are going by the percentage method. The consensus seems to be if the grading cost is more than 10% of the value of the coin, then it is not worth having the coin graded. I would like to present an alternative method for certification value. Lets forget about the basic things that certification provides a collector while he owns the coin (authenticity & protection) and focus merely on the financial aspect. We can further assume that what ever the assigned grade, it should be relatively easy to sell the coin at wholesale value. I know this is not always true, but let us assume for simplicity's sake. Instead of using a % of total value as the determining factor, I submit the cost of grading should be weighed against the potential loss of value if sold raw in combination with the grading skill of submitter. For example, lets look at a raw 1881-S Morgan Dollar that you grade MS65. Numismedia wholesale values can be rounded off to $50 for MS64 & $125 for MS65. Undoubtedly if you sell this coin raw, you will not get MS65 money for it. Instead, you will normally get MS64 plus a small premium. Unless it is a no brainer MS65, the potential buyer will not risk paying MS65 money for an coin that might slab MS64. Normally I see what I consider raw common date MS65 Morgans sell for $75. Here is the system I would like to propose. The potential loss is $75 if we sell the coin raw. However, sometimes we are going to be wrong and the coin will come back in an MS64 leaving us no way to recoup the grading costs. Therefore if the coin is graded MS65 you generate $95 at sale but only $20 if the coin grades MS64. Then you have to be able to accurately predict your grading accuracy. Then multiply your grading accuracy % by the $95 and your failure % by the $20 and add those two amounts together. If the result is higher than $75, then certification has a positive EV (Expected Value) over time. For example, lets say your grading accuracy is 80%. (0.8 x $95) + (0.2 x $20) = $80 Therefore you would have a positive EV to certify what you consider raw MS65 1881-S Morgan Dollars. However, lets say your grading accuracy is only 60% (0.6 x $95) + (0.4 X $20) = $63 Now you would be losing money by having the coins certified and would be better off selling the coins raw. You will notice that nowhere do I mention the purchase price of the coin. That is irrelevant since it is a fixed cost. The only thing that matters is the difference in sale price between certified and raw. Also keep in mind that I have never employed this strategy because I have never submitted raw coins to a TPG with the intention of selling the coin.
Like I said, "It takes a bit of planning" plus some subjective decisions. Because of that, as you can see, there is no single correct answer.
Here is an option for you to keep in mind... I own a Numismatic company and I do slab some of my coins, but I use a min value of $200. It seems to me that many buyers like seeing the coin in a PCGS or NGC holder and they feel comfort in that, but I have seen many times a buyer who is paying for just a slab. Remember the saying "Buy the coin, not the slab?" With all that said I do slab my coins, but I do NOT submit them... I bring them to another dealer who charges $20 to submit the coin to either NGC or PCGS. Then I do not have to worry about shipping, postage, and insurance, the submitting dealer insures one package with several different clients coins in it that could be anywhere from just a few coins to over 100+ coins. My two cents.
But, but, but . . . OK, I understand what everybody is saying. And it makes a lot of sense. But, then, why do I keep seeing things like this: Memorial Cent, 1969-S, PF68RD, $13, NGC
This is mostly due to the people that are just SLAB HAPPY. There are many that have coins slabbed that are worth many, many times less than the cost of the slab but still just have to have it slabbed. At coin shows many times I see coins worth a few dollars in slabs selling for a few dollars. Makes no CENTS at all. As to your question, think of this. To whom are you planning on selling those to? Are you planning on using ebay? Selling to a coin store? Sell to a private party? All makes an additional difference. No coin store or coin dealer will pay you that extra for the slabbed coin since they too have to make a profit. If selling on ebay, maybe. Just remember that having a coin slabbed may or may not get you more money anywhere.
Registry addicts perhaps? I am not ashamed to say I would slab a coin worth well below the cost that incurs. I love working on my registry sets and don't mind slabbing a coin of beauty I want in my set.
