Ducats ... Ducats ... Ducats

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by silvereagle82, Dec 19, 2009.

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  1. silvereagle82

    silvereagle82 World Gold Collector

    ??????
     
    silvereagle82, Dec 21, 2009
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  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Apologies Conrad, when I first read that I was at the lodge and could not recall the answer off the top of my head - had to look it up. When I got home - I forgot :-(

    The answer is the Dordrecht mint as denoted by its mint mark which was either a rose or flower.
     
    GDJMSP, Dec 21, 2009
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  4. hiho

    hiho off to work we go

    No problem, I understand completely.

    Here is my 1849 for inspection, and I do believe it may be Russian.....

    [​IMG]
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    hiho, Dec 22, 2009
    #23 + Quote Reply
  5. hiho

    hiho off to work we go

    Here's an 1818 in a lower AU grade for comparision purposes.....

    [​IMG]
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    hiho, Dec 22, 2009
    #24 + Quote Reply
  6. hiho

    hiho off to work we go

    And a nice 1805 for the ducat hat trick.....

    [​IMG]
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    hiho, Dec 22, 2009
    #25 + Quote Reply
  7. silvereagle82

    silvereagle82 World Gold Collector

    I like that hat trick ... very nice hiho:bow:
     
    silvereagle82, Dec 22, 2009
    #26 + Quote Reply
  8. TheBigH

    TheBigH Senior Member

    Nice coins, guys. I like how all the faces look different for each issue. I never knew that before. I just thought they were like the Maria Theresa thalers.
     
    TheBigH, Dec 22, 2009
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  9. hiho

    hiho off to work we go

    Dank U! I will post a few more as time allows.
     
    hiho, Dec 23, 2009
    #28 + Quote Reply
  10. hiho

    hiho off to work we go

    The knight's appearance changes quite a bit throughout the years, my favorites are the ducats issued during the late 1600's into the early 1700's. And as each mint (Holland, Utrecht, Zeeland, Friesland, Gelderland) used slightly different dies you'll find subtle differences there too.

    The more I learn about Dutch ducats the more I like them. Though they are beginning to get more and more expensive...
     
    hiho, Dec 23, 2009
    #29 + Quote Reply
  11. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Yes, the 1849 is a Russian made copy of the Netherlands ducat of the same year. One of th ekey diagnostics is the tip of the sword extending above the horizontal line of the mint master's mark.

    What you probably don't know is that your 1818 ducat is also a Russian copy. Two key diagnostics for that are the second and fourth arrows being shorter than on the Netherlands version and the E in BELGII and LEGEM being level. On the Netherlands version they are tilted slightly to the left.

    The Russians made copies of the Netherlands ducats because they were so widely accepted without question. They made copies of the issues from 1716-1806 and 1818-1867. Diganostics are known for the latter group, but not known for the former.
     
    GDJMSP, Dec 23, 2009
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  12. TheBigH

    TheBigH Senior Member

    That's very interesting. It's probably something I should have known. Alas, I did not. I might have to buy one some day. There used to be quite a few types that were valued near the bullion price, is that still true or have the values progressed beyond that?
     
    TheBigH, Dec 23, 2009
    #31 + Quote Reply
  13. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    Man, that's what I love about this forum!! Beauties, guys! Amazing show of force from the ducat world!! Wish I had one. Maybe someday. :thumb:
     
    fretboard, Dec 23, 2009
    #32 + Quote Reply
  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    To see the various designs used over the years just have a look at my albums. I think most of them are represented there.

    Most of the more modern issues, they are still minted today, are priced very close to bullion.

    The newest I used to own was a 2003, which looked like this -
     

    Attached Files:

    GDJMSP, Dec 23, 2009
    #33 + Quote Reply
  15. TheBigH

    TheBigH Senior Member

    I checked your Netherlands album. Great stuff! I especially like the silver ducat, because it's unusual. The last one in the second album looks almost like red gold, unless it's just a photographic effect.
     
    TheBigH, Dec 23, 2009
    #34 + Quote Reply
  16. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    It is. I took those pics in a hurry and never went back to re-do them.
     
    GDJMSP, Dec 23, 2009
    #35 + Quote Reply
  17. silvereagle82

    silvereagle82 World Gold Collector

    While we are posting Netherlands ducats here are a few previously posted:
    1808 Netherlands (Batavian Republic):
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    A (Batavian Republic) 1807 Double Ducat:
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
    silvereagle82, Dec 23, 2009
    #36 + Quote Reply
  18. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    I sure like those!!
     
    mpcusa, Dec 23, 2009
    #37 + Quote Reply
  19. hiho

    hiho off to work we go

    Thanks for the info Doug, I do appreciate it.

    As both coins were bought from the same sleazy eBay seller from Maryland it comes as no suprise that they are Russian replicas. After he wouldn't let me return the 3rd coin I bought from him, a cleaned 1750 7G gold rider, I no longer bid on his auctions. I went on to find honest dealers, two in the Netherlands, one in England and another (Gary West) in Maryland of all places.

    I'll probably keep the 1849 as I still like it but don't be suprised if the 1818 shows up on eBay accurately described after the holidays.

    Conrad, I love the 1808 ducat, may I ask how NGC graded it. It looks MS64 or MS65 to me. The 1807 double ducat is beautiful too.

    Who would like to comment on this double ducat?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    hiho, Dec 24, 2009
    #38 + Quote Reply
  20. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I'd have to say XF, sure is purty though !

    As for Gary West, suggest you only buy slabbed examples.

    And if you'd like the info on how to identify the Russian copies, send me your email in a PM and I'll send it to you.
     
    GDJMSP, Dec 24, 2009
    #39 + Quote Reply
  21. silvereagle82

    silvereagle82 World Gold Collector

    hiho,
    the 1808 was graded AU58.
    Has a lot of luster with a solid strike of the obverse.... but some light wear.
    It is still one of the nicest I have ever seen and believe me I have looked hard for the past 5 years
     
    silvereagle82, Dec 24, 2009
    #40 + Quote Reply
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