1853 Qtr and 1868 Nickel

Unfortunately by the photo I provided you truly can't appreciate the full detail of this example. Go to heritage if you can and view this coin in it's largest format. you will see a tremendous difference between it and the OP'S coin.

 

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True. The color made it appear more worn in the small photo than it really was.

However:

This is more what I think of when I think "XF-40":

http://teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=1987&lot=1222&imagetype=j2

Notice how this following piece was graded AU details...reminds me of the OP's coin with a weak strike:

http://teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2026&lot=1248

Poorly struck XF-45: Notice the wear on the left leg that is mostly (presumably, a bit hard to see from the pics) absent from OP's coin; the coin easily wore there because of the bad strike:

http://teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2244&lot=1602&imagetype=j2

And here is another 'hammered strike':

http://teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2142&lot=1121&imagetype=j2



Upon up close examination I do not see much wear on the HA coin you gave at all, which makes me think that this example is actually undergraded. I have, in my opinion, seen coins like that in AU slabs. I also think whoever got it at that price got a great deal because it still retains a lot of eye appeal. A textbook example of people buying the slab, not the coin. Here's a comparable coin in terms of wear IMO, or close:

http://teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2026&lot=1248

I maintain that the OP's coin has little actual wear either, but the heritage example is definitely nicer due to the strike and should have brought $150+ easily. I'm surprised it only brought in $80. The OP's coin is probably around $100-$120 thus, regardless of 'wear grade' because of the weak strike. It appears that there are many factors involved with this, and that the strikes vary to the extreme.

 

Thats one hell of XF-40 for that money.

 

"I would think the quarter is at least XF details. Not so much because of the detail remaining that I see, but because a lot of luster remains, even after the cleaning/dipping. As a result, I think it was weakly struck and merits XF/AU details. Don't worry about the cleaning. Just remember that 90% of coins from that era were cleaned and you are fortunate to have one with some remaining luster."

Thanks guys, I still think you are both closer to the value and grade then coinman is. (and that's not just wishful thinking) Coinman - The 2007 red book has this coin at $150 in EF40. I doubt that the market has softened that much since 2007. I don't know what the current book says but again I doubt it is anywhere near the prices you quoted. I understand that it was what you thought it was worth (and I asked) but I don't think that jives with the books. But I am also only a collector and the dealers might have a better feel for it.

 

Red Book prices are not reliable and very much over estimated, always when it comes to an issue as this.

 

Yeah agreed, red book is a pretty bad judge of value, so is PCGS price guide etc. numismedia is better but nowhere near perfect either.

 

Well it now seems the OP, is reconciled to the fact that his example definitely does not merit an AU grade. To continue further examination, it does not warrant an XF-45. The op's coin definitely has more "wear" in the main focal points, however it is disguised nicely with that cleaning. I guess the next best thing to do, is to have your coin graded by one of the TPG's. Is it worth that expense to you? Again I will say, that being the coin is "raw", I would be looking to spend anywhere between 35-60.00, since I don't believe the coin grades even XF-40 , rather high end VF. Now just say your coin should grade an XF-40, you can see you can readily get those for $80-90.00 slabbed. You simply need to watch the auctions. Heritage,teletrade, stacks etc. Now a Dealer will most definitely sell you one for $150.00. This is how the game is played. The coin I linked to just proves that you don't have to spend alot of money to get a VERY NICE COIN that is worthy of the grade, and perhaps even on a re-grade the next grade up.

 

I didn't see that he did, and I still maintain he shouldn't necessarily:

The strike vs. wear debate is a huge thing that I've seen come up MANY times here. The way I see it is that weakly struck coins should be sold at a lower price than hammered ones (and they are), but they DO have a different look than a strongly struck VF, and thus cannot be treated as such. I have seen this with many slabbed coins (such as that AU details coin I showed you, it's undeniable that in terms of 'detail it looks VF-35 at first glance at best), and sometimes TPG's will make various errors mistaking strike for wear.

There are some lincoln cent dates/mints (particularly coins like the 1925-S) that appear to have VF detail in AU-55, mostly because of a mushy strike. No doubt, if mushy strikes are the rule, then a strongly struck coin commands a huge premium. With this coin, they are not, and thus the value is bumped down a bit, but not to VF level. I mean, we definitely can agree to disagree, but I feel that this kind of 'fast judgment' based on a poor strike tends to happen more often than not, especially with people posting blurry pictures.

 

Those are your words and not mine. I still think you are off on both ~ but that's your opinion.

Here is a current auction that would help support my opinion that it is worth more than you give it credit for.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1853-Arrows-and...mQQptZCoins_US_Individual?hash=item4ceca4095f

My coin is way better looking than this PCGS 40 and look at what it is going for. Do you think it is getting that price because of the plastic? If it makes that big a difference, then maybe I should get mine graded. I can tell you that it will grade better than 40 based on that example.

 

True, and again I'll say, just say it does grade XF-40 Details. Why would I pay $150 or $120 for it? For me I won't, when I can pretty much rather easy obtain one in the same grade/condition for under $100.00 and they are slabbed.

I know you see more "original" detail than I, and can understand your position of grade. We just disagree on that issue. At first glance you are correct, there does not seem to be much wear. What I see, is more disturbing to me .

We agree to disagree. Nothing personal to you or the OP.

 

well so far the bid is only $104.00 and that is for an "ORIGINAL" specimen graded XF-40 not a "cleaned" coin. Yours may appear to look better ( due to cleaning )

 

Mine might be cleaned but I still think it looks much-much better than this original.

Like you said, I think we can agree to disagree. No offence taken or intended.

 

encil:

 

Why do people always post questions on here if they are just going to disagree with the answers?

 

I don't understand it either.

 

I dunno. Found it kind of interesting - got more information then if everyone had just said: XF-40, AU-50, etc.

Talked about strike, cleaned vs. original, slabbing.

And avoided the circus atmosphere of some of the threads on this site!

 

The link to the EBAY auction the OP provided with a slabbed XF-40 sold for $111.00. Which is within the price range I feel is fair, for an "Authenticated-Uncleaned"example of this issue in that grade. Not a bad price at all!

 

Uss656

the 1853 almost looks like it has a repunched date?:kewl:

 

CashDude - I was looking for an opinion to see how well it matched up with mine. I felt the discussion was good and personally I am always willing to discuss an opinion when I give one.

Jello ??? Does this help

 

I have to agree with the XF details comments in this thread. While the coin does appear to have some luster left in the fields.. the details lack enough for me to call it an AU. I also believe this coin to have been more then just dipped... this coin was harshly cleaned at some point... dipping a coin will not give it the bright white reflective look we see in the first pictures... dipping may lighten it but I believe this coin was rubbed or polished by something.

What does this do to the value of the coin??

It sure doesn't help... Problem coins are always hard to sell... Especially when you can buy a no problem example in the same grade relatively inexpensively. Personally I discount harshly cleaned coins at least %50 of the details grade price... and then sometimes have trouble moving them at price. The greysheet puts an 1853 A&R quarter in XF at $100 as a bid price... meaning that I would be a seller of this coin in the $50 range... and a buyer in the $40-$45 range. Coins that have been lightly cleaned but still noticeably cleaned I personally still discount about %25 of their bid price.


I also don't believe it to be a repunched date.