Recent Morgan pickups

nice set of morgans

 

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Great set, congrats.
I just picked up my first dozen Morgans as part of a larger collection I bought. Got an awesome deal...silver value alone shows me paying about $9 an ounce.

Anyway, I see you bathed them in Acetone. I get such a mixed message when I ask about cleaning coins. Some of the Morgans I got look little worn, two I'd consider sending to be graded, but they are dirty. Not toned (well, a little on the edges), just appearing to have some dirt/oily residue/specs on them. Is acetone safe for general grime cleaning? Did your grading company "punish" you for having used it? Is it just a question of "swirling" your coin in the acetone as opposed to rubbing it down with it? General acetone advice?

 

Well slap my ass and call me Nancy! Dude that is awesome! I'd be EXTREMELY happy with that!

 

Hmmm, no comment on the acetone cleaning. I'd be surprised if the coins didn't come back with a lower grade and "surface altered," indicated as the reason why.

Funny if they don't downgrade them, since you obviously cleaned them, seeing as coin dealers always use the excuse that "they've been cleaned, I can only offer you spot."

Plus, if they don't downgrade them, I question the grading services. If you just acetoned these coins and the grading service doesn't notice...that's not saying anything good about the grading service.

 

If you search this and other forums for "acetone", you'll see more info than I can ever provide. Acetone removes the active PVC from the coin's surface. It is not considered "cleaning". It's completely different from "dipping". In my case, it removed a light layer of smoke film and other organic material. It made the luster pop and probably bumped a few coins up a point. It was not a "dip". TPGs also use acetone. If you have a slabbed coin that shows PVC and the TPG has a guarantee service, send it back. They will most likely rinse it in acetone, verify the PVC is gone, slab it, and send it back.

 

cphine, I don't know if I answered your question. My coins were all uncirculated. I put them in a glass dish, one at a time, soaked in acetone for about 20-30 seconds, removed, placed on soft cloth, air dry/evaporate. Sometimes I would give the coin a second quick (5-10 seconds) rinse in a second dish of acetone. This is to remove any stuff that may have been left on the surface from the first rinse. I don't swirl or touch the coin with anything. Some people will use a q-tip soaked in acetone, while the coin is submerged in acetone, to lightly work any grime away. I don't. I don't to take the chance of adding hairlines.
For circulated coins, I might soak longer to remove any noticeable PVC. I like dirt and crud. I leave that on the coin. I'm only worried about PVC.
There are a lot of precautions you have to take with acetone. Very flammable. Fumes are dangerous. Search for the forum for more details.

 

I'm still confused.....If I have a coin that was dirty, and I washed the surface with soap and water.....you wouldn't consider that cleaning?

 

I found this...

CLEANING SILVER COINS
Silver coins, when newly minted, have a bright silvery-white surface. A chemically active metal, silver tends to tone deep brown to black. Circulated silver coins will often have a dull gray appearance, sometimes with a deep gray or black area. Silver coins acquire a blue, green, or violet oil-like tone through tarnishing that can enhance the appearance and desirability of an old silver coin and should not be cleaned.
Many collectors will not buy silver coins that look as if they have been cleaned. When tarnish becomes dark brown or black, and a coin's design is hard to see, there may be some desirability to cleaning it using non-harsh methods, but never with an abrasive paste or cloth.
Clean dark silver coins with ammonia, vinegar, rubbing alcohol, lemon juice or polish remover with aceton. Allow coins to soak in a container of the liquid until any dirt or encrustation has been dislodged.
Air-dry or pat them dry with a soft, clean cloth. Do not rub or polish. This may scratch the surface of the coin and will remove metal from the coin's surface. Any wear or scratches will decrease the value of your coin!

I think the thing to note is this line...."Many collectors will not buy silver coins that look as if they have been cleaned."

 

SilverSurfer, I am not sure what you are asking. No, I don't buy cleaned coins. Rubbing with soap and water... yeah, I would consider that cleaning. Nail polish remover? That stuff isn't pure acetone. It has a lot of additives that will remain on the coin. I read something last week that recommended using a pencil eraser to shine up Lincoln cents. I would consider that harsh cleaning. I don't consider a rinse with acetone as "cleaning", but this has been debated MANY times on different forums. Do a search on CoinTalk and you'll see hundreds of threads.

Edit- I said I don't buy cleaned coins,. I "try" not to buy cleaned coins. A lot of Morgans out there have been dipped at one time or another. I try to find original looking Morgans, but I can't guarantee each coin's history.

 

outstanding results!

And.. I think of acetone soaking as conservation, removing traces of pvc, old paper album gunk, smoke, whatever. It is definitely NOT cleaning, as no disturbance of the coin's surface is involve, either chemically or mechanically.

 

Acetone. OC(CH3)2. Silver. AG.

Silver acetate. (AgC2H3O2)......it's obvious to me, a chemical reaction takes place.

 

My appologies. I didn't intend to so dramatically alter the focus of this thread with my question.
Thanks for the answers though, more for me to ponder.

Again, nice pickups!

 

cphine, no problem. I come here to learn and have no problem with threads changing or discussing different topics. It only means more discussion and learning.

SilverSurfer, silver acetate? I think I used that in photo chem class thirty years ago; or maybe that was methyl acetate. Not sure what to tell you. Your first response mentioned that I cleaned them, that they should be downgraded, and if they weren't, you question the TPG. Ummm, okay. I'm not a chemist, but I suggest you do a little more research.

 

Well, you did say soap and water was cleaning the coin...and there isn't a chemical reaction between soap and silver. However acetone does form a kind of salt with silver called Silver acetate. If you want, I can balance the chemical equation for you. But the point remains, silver and acetone combine to make silver acetate. Maybe you did use silver acetate in photo shop.....how do you think the silver acetate was made?

 

SilverSurfer, why are you trying to get into an argument in a thread where I posted some coins I just purchased? People like you are why I don't visit here too often.
Balance the chemical equation for you? I think you missed the part where I said I was not a chemist.
Soap and water was cleaning? I think you missed the word "RUBBING".
If you want, I can use Google and find the other hundred thousand times this has been discussed. You can continue your argument in some of those threads. The argument still goes on. Do you want me to post the links? Do some reading on using acetone with uncirculated silver coins over your winter recess.

 

This discussion is over with. They are your coins, you do with them as you please. But I will admit, recess, that's funny. Considering I have a B.S. in physics and have been out of school now for 15 years.

 

SilverSurfer, thanks for declaring the discussion to be over, but I think you're missing the point. This topic has been discussed thousands of times. My thread was not started to get into an old debate. You have a valid opinion. You should express it in some of those threads. Some of the posters have scientific backgrounds, like yourself. My BS is in CS and was received decades ago. I'm outdated and can't contribute much to the chemical argument of using acetone on uncirculated silver coins.
My apologies for thinking you were a college chemistry student. If you read some of those threads, you can see why I made the wrong assumption.

Here are a few of the links when searching "acetone". There are thousands of older links here and on other forums. Go share your knowledge.

link1
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link9

 

Nice haul. Can you post some pictures from after the grading? I would like to compare the pictures. Some of the original coins in the holder looked nice. In all honesty I would also like to see how the acetone worked - just for my education. I have never used it myself.

 

mark_h, I did a quick search for before and after acetone results on a few forums. Most of the pics were linked and are now missing. Of some of the ones shown, the results didn't look favorable to me. I'll search later for existing images of Morgan dollars showing the results.
I can try to take some scans of the slabbed coins when I get them back. The original images of the albums were also scans.
I still have several uncirculated Morgans from the collection. I can start a new thread during my winter recess to show before/after acetone results. I can take some digital photos that will be better than the scans.

 

Thanks I would appreciate it. Some of the other threads I have seen over time did not look favorable to me also. Being you had pictures I thought I could compare the two. I think one of the very first threads I read on this site was someone using acetone on a cent they just got graded, they cracked it out, quick dip to remove finger print and then sent it back in. It came back 1 point higher.