I mentioned this coin on my Ontario show report, so here are some photos! I bought this piece (1862 NGC MS65) at the Ontario show and noticed it had die polishing lines over the ear. I have seen a couple other dates with this same type of die striations and figured I'd just look up the Snow number when I had a break in the show. I usually carry a set of Rick's Attribution Guide with me so when I went to the 1862 section, I discovered there were no 1862 Indian cents with this variety! I thought maybe it just didn't make it into the book yet (since this volume was published several years ago), so I called Rick and asked him whether he knew of any 1862's with the die polishing marks like the 1875 or 1865, and he said no he didn't know of any. I asked him if that meant the coin I just bought would be considered a "discovery coin" and he said YES! I told Rick I would bring the coin to him at FUN so he could photograph it and assign a new Snow number. I am so excited to have "discovered" a new variety, and to have my name in the next edition of Rick's Attribution Guide!!!
Congratulations. And those are some pretty good pictures. That is also interesting to show people how die polish lines avoid the high points. If you look closely at the ear, there is even a line in the center of the ear as well as both sides of the ear, but there are none on either the lobe or flap.
Great find, Charmy. I felt the same way when I found a 1857 Flying Eagle Snow 22 variety that was confirmed by Rick. It took a while but It in his attribution guide, attributed to me. It's a little piece of immortality, I might add. It's a good feeling seeing your coin in Ricks guide. Did he tell you what Snow # he'll assign it? Bruce
Congrats - Very cool! It is always amazing when a coin this old is discovered as a new variety. Really happy for you! Thanks for sharing the news.
Good going. A coin associated with your name. Works for me. I'm waiting for the latest Snow chapter (1890-1909) to arrive then I'll try to attribute my IHC's. I haven't had a lot of luck yet doing that sort of thing. I tried VAM's first, then 2-cent coins. Maybe I can get the hang of it doing Indian Head cents.
FASCINATING! Congrats on the find! Question: Would this be a die state or die variety or both? Just wondering...Mike
Thanks! And Leadfoot, it's a die variety, meaning after this particular die was polished, every coin stamped with it should have these die polishing lines. If it's a die state, that refers to the quality (or lack of) of the die at the time the coin was stamped. If it's an early die state, then the coin will have crisp and pristine details. But if it's a late die state, then the coin may have a lot of die cracks and chips, weakness in details, and other issues that usually render the coin with soft details.
Agreed! For one hundred and forty-seven years it remained undiscovered until it reached your hands! Good eye and congratulations!
Charmy, Please correct me if I"m wrong.... From what I understand of die polish, it can happen at two different times. The first way is during the die preparation. Die is hardened, then polished to be prepared for use. Die gets polish lines, and lines show in coins pressed. These coins would be a die variety. The second way is because of die lapping. A die gets a bit old, and the press attendant polishes the dies, then a previously-perfect die gets die polish. In this case, if the coin were a known die pair previously, it would be a later die state (now with polish lines). There are many examples of large cents that show the first type of die polish (i.e. present in first strikes) and the second type of die polish (i.e. a later die state showing polish), but I'm unfamiliar with the IHCs and if we can use the same logic when attributing the more recent series....Mike
Mike, I see what you mean. I could be wrong and will check with Rick to confirm but I believe this example is a result of your first example.
It looks that way to my eye too. You'd expect to see some loss of detail centrally if the die was used and then relapped, and I cant make out any in the photos. Just wasn't sure at all of Rick's ability to distinguish betwen the dies (i.e. is there enough distinct in the IHCs to say for sure -- as even in the late date braided hair it's next to impossible, and from what I understand of minting methods by 1862 it was even better). Anyway, thanks for the fascinating new find and interesting discussion. Take care...MIke
I thought I'd update this post. I showed the 1862 to Rick Snow and he said he personally didn't think the variety was bold enough to qualify for a new attribution, but suggested I write an article about it for the Fly-In Club newsletter, and that he could possibly be swayed if enough people thought it was worthy of a new attribution. So that's what I intend to do. Although this variety is attributed on 1875 Indian cents (which admittedly is more bold than this one), I personally have never seen these die striations on an 1862 before and I think it's really neat so I don't want to "give up without a fight!!" Here is Todd's photo of this coin without the closeup (which I will post as soon as it is ready).
