1858 flying eagle wrong alloy or fake?

Some years back, I was using a solution (don't remember what) to clean some ancient bronze coins and happened to throw a 1943 steel cent in...nicest copper coating job I've ever seen!

 

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MSR is a copper and bronze soaking solution and not a dip. The coin was soaked in fresh solution for several hours. Check out
What would you grade/value my 1858 Flying Eagle cent (SL, Closed E)?
Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by redeyelou, Jul 1, 2017.
Look at the weak C in cent and the covered denticles on the left side of the rev. Same die?

 

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/wh...my-1858-flying-eagle-cent-sl-closed-e.299055/

direct link to the other coin post

 

I agree with paddyman, something does not appear right with the reverse of the coin. As for cleaning, do it at your own risk. Thanks for the post.

 

The coin doesn't look right to me. As others have stated the reverse looks questionable. As far as the coin going from a natural darker copper nickel look to almost a dull silver look it's possible your Mint State Restoration Cleaner was used on other coins and has plated out on this cent. I'm not familiar with this chemical but I do know that you need to be very careful and avoid using a coin dip on different composition coins. Don't use a dip that was used on silver and then on a copper coin because the silver could end up plating the copper coin which is what might be the case with this flying eagle cent.

 

Welcome to CT @badlands3. I'm not sure what your purpose was to your post number 23. I don't do links so didn't look, but your coin is different in color. What color was it before the dip, other than the black spots?

 

I'm in the genuine camp, but no matter what, this coin is getting "details" cleaned/ questionable color from here on out.

the directions for the Mint State restoration state not to let a coin soak in it for long and let the solution settle because it will separate and concentrate and become more acidic. longer soaks are for dug bronze coins that are caked and encrusted, and afterwards need to be treated to retone them as close to natural surfaces as you could get to make the ancient coin somewhat visually appealing and marketable.

its an ancient coin "restorer". it's meant for encrusted coins sitting in the dirt for hundreds and hundreds of years.

I mean it says in the directions "IT IS NOT ADVISABLE TO USE THIS OR ANY OTHER CLEANER ON MODERN COINS (FOR EXAMPLE, WHEAT PENNIES) UNLESS YOU ARE EXPERIENCED WITH COIN RESTORATION. ALWAYS TEST ON AN INEXPENSIVE PIECE BEFORE USING ON VALUABLE ITEMS"

it also says "For copper coins, look for signs of tarnish removal, which can occur fairly quickly. Make sure not to leave copper soaking for too long, or you run the risk of removing the patina. For bronze coins, dirt and verdigris are the predominant issues, and typically require longer soaks. Check bronze every 6 hours or so, making sure to watch for signs that the cleaner has penetrated to the coin surface. Coins with especially heavy dirt, corrosion, and verdigris should be removed and cleaned with a soft brass brush after a 24-hour soak, then placed back in the solution until the desired effect is achieved."

but it's not copper, and it's not brass, it's some level of a cupronickel alloy. not straight up CuNi for saltwater pipes, but it's close to 90/10 Cuni for saltwater pipes.
CuNi is silver in color when it's fresh, over time it takes on a light brown,yellowish hue as it tarnishes, but fresh CuNi is grey just like the original picture.

And this from the directions cracks me up "Copper coins sometimes turn a pinkish color after soaking for extended periods of time, which may not be desirable. To restore patina to a copper coin, place it in the soaking tray along with a coin that has verdigris (green corrosion) on it. Soak the coin for about an hour, then remove, but don’t rinse it off immediately. After about 24 hours, you should see some of the patina return."

sure sure. sounds legit. they are suggesting to dissolve verdigris (Copper(II) acetate ) in the solution hoping some of it tranfers to the discolored copper coin to turn it greener. and a more natural patina...... yep. just fantastic! probably even looks good on an ancient coin....

if any of these directions from the bottle sounded like good instructions for cleaning a coin, you have a lot to learn. the product is meant for ancients that are lost causes that need to be treated with an acid to remove encrustations to make them half way presentable to a collector of ancients, mostly beginners.

Nic-a-date is a "date restorer" for buffalo nickels. it makes the date visible when it's been worn off, but it still damages the surface of the coin in doing that, damage that can't ever be repaired without it looking unnatural so whats it matter if you can read the date if it damages the coin? it doesn't matter, its a dateless buffalo or a damaged coin and worth 5 cents either way.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Mint-State-Restoration-Artifact-Cleaner/dp/B007CV5I4I

Can't find a MSDS on this , but amazon does have a customer's feedback on it.

Don't forget your 'pencils'

 

yeah you won't find a MSDS for the product, or who the manufacturer is either. I looked everywhere for it, it's just the TM name "Mint State Restoration".

I'm not going to go as far as trying to look up the trademarked name, it shouldn't be this hard for an honest product to find out if it's honestly non-toxic or who makes it.

I found their website, its just a web page with the directions for use and precautions, it's not secure though, so I don't suggest clicking it. better yet, I'm not going to post it, but it's a variation of it's name and where I found the directions. it looks safe to me, but take no chances.

At the end of the directions it says: "PRECAUTIONS: In case of eye contact, check for and remove any contact lenses. Immediately flush eyes with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes. Cold water may be used. Get medical attention. In case of skin contact, immediately flush skin with plenty of water. Cover any irritated skin with an emollient. If irritation persists, seek medical attention. Use in a well ventilated area."

"check for and remove any contact lenses".... LOL that's pretty clear, if you get it in your eye, someone else is going to have to figure out if you wear contacts, if you could do it, you'd know right off the bat and not have to check

 

Post #23 shows a coin with an almost identical rev. Same fake or from the same rev. die?

 

It's a hard vacuum?

How can it be very acidic if it contains no chemicals?

I think the acid has stripped the patina, and possibly some of the copper from the surface leaving the surfaces with a higher than normal nickel content. Remember there were known as "white cents" when new because the nickel content gave them a silverish color. I think you have "restored" the coin somewhat to it's original color, without the luster a new coin would have.

 

yup, what I was talking about.