What is wrong or right with this 1853-C Gold Dollar?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by johnmilton, May 25, 2021.

  1. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    I purchased this coin a number of years ago in a Heritage auction. I saw that there was something strange about the "ED" in "STATES" but bought the coin anyway.

    Would anyone care to speculate about what this is? Is it a mint caused feature, or is it post mint damage? I can post the obverse, reverse and a close-up of the area, but I can't show the edge because the piece is in an old style NGC holder.

    The photos are from Heritage. NGC graded this coin AU-55.

    1853-C Dol Heritige O.jpg 1853-C Dol Heritage R.jpg

    Here are close-ups of the area.

    1853-C attched cud.jpg 1853-C Cud.jpg
     
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  3. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    Is that a cud? The anomaly is half-moon shaped, is at the edge, has what appears to be a significant amount of planchet metal flowed up into the die crack just right of D, and appears to penetrate the rim at both locations. Also, the lack of dentils in the area suggest that the broken piece of die moved rather than force metal up into the die.
     
  4. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Withdrawn comment.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
  5. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    I was thinking attached cud when I bought the coin. I was thinking that somehow that part of the die pushed up instead of simply falling off the die and struck those letters into the coin, but others disagreed with me.

    You have to remember that these dies were incredibly small and that this coin was struck in a collar.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
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  6. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 U.S Casual Collector / Error Collector

    PMD . IMHO . Sorry .:(
     
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  7. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    That's okay, Please elaborate.
     
  8. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 U.S Casual Collector / Error Collector

    Sorry . I'm not a coin Doctor just a Gypsy . :happy:
     
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  9. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    Nice coin, and super rare! :) As far as the what happened at the US Mint, to cause the "E" to look double struck? I think it's PMD over a die crack, over two die cracks.
     
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  10. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Why is the "ED" below the surface of the rest of coin and does not appear to be damaged? If those letters had been pushed in after the coin was stuck, shouldn't they be flattened? Also there does not appear to be damage on the opposite area of the obverse.

    This is why the coin puzzles me.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
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  11. CircCam

    CircCam Victory

    My first thought was cud as well. That doesn’t look like PMD to me. Sweet coin though.

    Paging @messydesk - any ideas?
     
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  12. jwitten

    jwitten Well-Known Member

    Planchet flaw in my opinion. Beautiful coin. tons of character, and nice color/toning.
     
  13. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    I think there's PMD to the edge only, that's why.
     
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  14. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    Some sort of weird planchet flaw maybe?
    @GDJMSP what do you think?
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
  15. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    SensibleSal66, posted: "Sorry . I'm not a coin Doctor just a Gypsy." . :happy:

    You are also dead wrong! You gave an opinion [Wild guess based on ??]. You were asked to explain it.

    PS IMHO, to grade this coin AU-55 w/o mentioning this defect :muted: so obvious that it affects the coin's :stinkyfeet: value is :rage: CRIMINAL! It should have been mentioned by Heritage also.

    Hint: It is NOT a cud. Why? What's a Cud!
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
  16. dwhiz

    dwhiz Collector Supporter

    At first glance I thought "Mount Removed".
    I think the "C" mint mark dazzled them:wacky:
     
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  17. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    A cud is a blob of metal that results when a piece of the die, usually on the edge, breaks off. It is usually a lump a metal above the surface with no design detail.

    So I take you are voting post mint damage.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
  18. Dave Waterstraat

    Dave Waterstraat Well-Known Member

    Looks like a lamination peel or some type of mount was removed.
     
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  19. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    I can see the "ED" being as sharp as it is if the lamination was before the coin was struck. I can't see how it could be that sharp if the lamination dropped after it was struck.

    The same thing is true if the letters were under a mount that was removed. Usually a mount obliterates the letters or at least makes them weak.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
  20. potty dollar 1878

    potty dollar 1878 Well-Known Member

    Nice rare coin I agree with some kind of planchet flaw,thats definitely not a cud and I don't think its damage.
     
  21. CircCam

    CircCam Victory

    A strike through of some kind?

    Let’s hear the CSI theory @Insider :)
     
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