Hello everyone. Long time watcher, first time poster. I recently acquired a double maiorina of Jovian from Thessalonica, and I'm having trouble determining the bust type. Conceptually I understand the difference between a rosette diadem (RIC 237) and a laurel and rosette diadem (RIC 238), but I can't seem to grasp the distinction in coinage. I've looked at countless examples of both, if the various auction houses got it right, and can't seem to find any differences. My coin, (see below) is worn and hard to photograph, and my set up is quite amateur, but I think the diadem should be clear enough. I'm also including a relevant excerpt of RIC for your convenience. I'd love some insight on this, but feel free to share your own Jovian double maiorinae and/or coins with ambiguous headgear as well. Thank you!
Funny enough, I had the same dilemma last evening with a different coin. It's Constantius II from Cyzicus BUT.... http://numismatics.org/ocre/id/ric.8.cyz.47 laureate? http://numismatics.org/ocre/id/ric.8.cyz.48 pearl diademed? http://numismatics.org/ocre/id/ric.8.cyz.49 rosette-diademed? I'm leaning towards the last but frankly my example could match all three.
I'm fairly sure yours is rosette-diademed. I have one of these from Cyzicus as well, just of Constans. Fun small coins.
Thank you, that was my guess as well. As for your coin, looking at the OCRE examples of 237 vs 238 I really can't see the difference, perhaps somebody specialized on 4th century can help.
I will preface my comments by noting that diadems are not my specialty. That being said, compare the diadems on the coins below (images courtesy CNG). The upper coin is described by CNG as "laurel and rosette" while the lower coin is described as "rosette" (only). In both cases, what are clearly rosettes are separated by pairs of comet-shaped objects. On the "rosette and laurel" coin, the two comets are joined together at the base (<), reminiscent of laurel leaves. On the "rosette" coin the comets are parallel (=), more like pearls on parallel bands. The "comets" themselves seem to be made with the same sort of punches. There is also something different going on near the ties. While I do see differences, I am not entirely convinced at this point that two distinct diadem types are intended, only that some "comets" are more parallel than others. [edited]
Thank you for your reply. I definitely see the difference between the two coins you shared, but I'm wondering if the fact that they're from different mints is problematic. Here is another Jovian double maiorina from CNG, this time from Antioch, that is listed as laurel and rosette-diademed, yet looks like neither of the coins you shared. The would be comet has no tail.
To compound matters, none of these diadems has anything shaped like an actual laurel leaf, which is pointy at both ends.
Here is my page on AE coins of Jovian: http://augustuscoins.com/ed/Jovian/Jovian.html I don't claim to know about the fine distinction we are trying to make, but I can see some difference in diadems. The third one down on that page (first coin below) has a diadem that is "laurel and rosette." Here it is: The first two lack the "rosette" part. Here they are: Jovian minted AE with only four reverse legends. Take a look: http://augustuscoins.com/ed/Jovian/Jovian.html I'd say the first coin and the OP coin are "laurel and rosette". The Antioch coin two posts above has obvious rosettes but only dots between them, not extended laurel leaves. Maybe that is what is meant by "rosette" alone. However, my top coin from Thessalonica does not have full leaves either, but dashes a bit longer than dots. Is there a continuum here being artificially divided into three? I see two [Edit: That is, rosette or not, separate from the pearl-diadem type, #3 in this post].
I'm not exactly sure what you mean, 2/3 types have rosettes, 1/3 has pearls, and 1/3 has laurels. The middle example shared here is laurel and rosette according to your website, and the top one shared here is just rosette. I'm guessing this was just a typo and I'm having trouble wrapping my head around what you mean. These diadems are doing my head in.
Thank you for keeping me honest. I changed the descriptions on the site to correspond better to the coins. I think one is "peal-diademed" (#3 in my post above), one is "laurel-diademed" (#2), and one is "rosette-diademed" with spaces between the rosettes that some may call "laurel" leaves although they look a lot like dots.
Very interesting thread .. perhaps if someone could actually circle what we are considering as rosettes, pearls, and laurels - this would help new collectors going forward.
Interesting question. I tend to think there are just two types of diadems here: pearl and rosette. The difference RIC seems to be talking about just seems to amount to whether the blobs between the rosettes are teardrop shaped ("leaves") or just round. I doubt that's a real difference, it seems to be a continuum. The one exception might be Warren's Constantinople coin which isn't pearl but lacks rosettes too. As far as I can tell this style seems to be very rare! Maybe it's just one or two engravers' idea of "pearl." I'm glad my Antioch is clear: pearl!
This is just pearls. The rosettes are the round shapes found in between the borders. Pearl and rosette diadems don't exist to my knowledge, actually. I'm not quite sure why.
