Another "Get Rid of the Lincoln Cent" Thread

In the EU, paper currency starts with the 5 Euro, with 1 Euro and 2 Euro denominations in the form of coins.

In the time I've spent in Europe, that's never posed the slightest problem for me. I didn't find the coins inconvenient at all. We could easily do the same in the U.S. People would adapt quickly.

 

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I've thought about this every once in a while. Between the memorial and shield cents, the mint has produced around 508 billion of them. I'm excluding the wheats because people are more inclined to pull them from circulation. Yes, the zinc coins don't last as long. Those considerations aside, since 1959 we've produced over 1500 one-cent coins for every person in this country. Where did they all go? Why do we need to make more of them?

 

It is a mystery.

 

That has been pointed out before, and yes we really do need to produce billions more every year as long as they are a produced for circulation coin. LakeEffect touched on the reason.

The problem is they have tried to go the incentive route a few times and it has never worked. The first time was in 1942. Pearl Harbor had recently been attacked and patriotic fever was HIGH and the government made a patriotic appeal for people to dig out their hoards of cents because copper was need for the war effort and shouldn't be used for making new cents. If people would just send their hoards back to the banks it would take the pressure off cent production. It FAILED completely. In 1974 financial incentives got as high as $1.25 for every dollar turned back in to the banks. That failed as well. You can't go too much higher on a financial incentive or it just become cheaper to make the new cents.

This it true and would work, I just object to making coins that don't circulate just for sale to collectors. If you are going to do that why not make a bunch of other denominations etc that aren't for circulation but can be used to soak collectors. You know the Canada Model.

Exactly. People find the cent too low a value to be worth spending their time on. So they WOULDN'T go back to the banks, the banks would runs short, businesses that can't get cents would start rounding and would stop even trying to get cents from the banks. Then even if people brought them in, since businesses are no longer requesting them they wouldn't go back out again and eventually the banks will ship them back to the Federal Reserve just to get rid of them. I firmly believe that if cent production for circulation were to actually stop, within less than a year there would be no cents in circulation.

No they will eventually become depleted, There is a small constant drain on the dollars in storage, about 6 million coins per month. Mainly going to large cities with major urban transit or subway systems. Same thing happened with the SBA dollars. After 1980 they had close to a billion of them in storage and stopped making them for circulation. But that small monthly drawdown was enough that they had to make 1999 SBA dollars because they were going to run out before the 2000 Sac dollars could be made. At current drawdown the Golden dollars in storage should all be gone sometime between 2029 and 2034.

Dollar coins have never really had a chance except in the period between 1840 and 1850. The early dollars were under valued and exported. Ther weren't any from 1803 to 1839, after 1850 they were undervalued again (a silver dollar had $1.04 worth of silver in it. So very time you used one you last 4 cents which was not a insignificant sum in that period.) By the late 1870's people had confidence in paper currency and would rather use the light weight paper dollars than the heavy silver dollars and they were confident that they could always get silver dollars for their paper if they desired.

But from 1840 to 1850 the dollar coin was NOT undervalued, and paper currency was HIGHLY suspect and of questionable value. So during that period dollar coins would have been desired.

 

They would actually reduce production of them if there wasn't a demand for them. Of the banks didn't order them they wouldn't get shipped out to the armored carriers that order them for the banks and the production would also lower.

It's not as if they are makin billions of them a year and just dumping them, there's a demand for them in commerce. It's the guys and girls that get them and toss them on the ground or in a jar or draw and immediately stop their use in commerce that's the problem and you're never going to get them to change their ways.

They could bring back the steel core with the plating like on the zincolns and they will hold up longer than the zincoln and be under 1 cent to produce for a bit I believe. It won't have the corrosion problems the steelies had until the copper plating gets compromised and they won't corrode as fast as zinc does when the plating gets compromised and steel is cheaper than zinc.

It's still a temporary answer because with metals the prices fluctuate due to demand.

I'm in no hurry to get my state sales tax of 7% rounded up to 10% when the cent gets removed. It's not like they are going to round it down to 5%, Or round it cumulatvely when they could just say "let's raise the rate, it doesn't work now without the cent so instead of 7 cents on the dollar let's make it 10".

And again the nickel is an even bigger loser than the cent is so that's gotta go too.

How about revaluing the u.s. currency in general and increasing its buying power along with every other denomination? That's a solution also.

Or how about revaluing the cent as a nickel, the nickel as a dime, a dime as 25 cent, and a quarter as 50 cents and kill the useless half dollar coin instead? That way we could even go back to pre-zincoln days. And not change the bills at all? Also a solution. And that would be a bit better long term.

 

And while we're at it, we should get rid of any big bills over $100. There are enough $100 bills in circulation to give forty of them to every man, woman and child in America. Bigger denominations are used for criminal activities, because it's harder to trace cash than credit card transactions. Get rid of the hundreds and thousands, you slow down many crimes.

 

Unless someone can shut down the zinc lobby, the cent will outlive quite a few members of this site, your humble narrator included.

 

I completely agree with what you are saying here...but my thought was that this would not require an act of Congress. One of the arguments that we see is that only Congress can cancel the cent...but did Congress decide the Kennedy Half would not longer be for circulation in 2002? I could be completely wrong here, but I don't believe legislation made that happen.

I have read that the zinc industry's lobbyists are a big part of the reason that the cent is so strongly minted. I don't know how true that is...but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

But doesn't this kind of make my point. What ultimately drives what you are describing is a lack of need. Businesses start rounding prices so they don't need cents to make change so banks end up sending them back to the Federal Reserve as they have no use for them. So, cents dry up from circulation in a year.

So, if within a year they are no longer in circulation...then why do we keep making them? Clearly the demand for use in commerce is artificial.

 

The Kennedy half is still produced, and should see a redesign along with every other coin in 2026 for the 250 anniversary. they just aren't making them for circulation anymore because the supply of them far exceeds the demand for them, like in 1987 they had 2 years worth of supply without having to strike anymore, and it's just gotten worse from there as the casinos stopped using them.

Congress is never going to cancel a coin or bill, it might allow for redesigns but they are never going to agree to kill one of them due to the implications and public perception if they did get rid of either the 1 cent, or the $100 bill and what people might feel about U.S. coin/currency if that started happening. They might let the mint put it on hiatus, but again, there's a constant demand for the cent in commerce, they can never make enough of them.

heck they still make $2 bills. last ones series 2017A, issued in 2019. when there needs to be more for demand, they make more, otherwise, they don't. but to kill it off or any of them? that's another whole story really.

 

THE LOSS OF MONEY FROM CENT IS NOT WORTHY OF CONSIDERATION.. edited

 

Enjoyed all the reading, thanks.

 

Make them out of copper again or some other alloy besides zincing zinc.

 

I use dosh about half the time, my bank card the other half. As for coin I prefer not to deal with anything less than a quarter - the other coins are practically valueless anymore. I accumulate them and put them in donation boxes at the grocery store. Most of the paper dosh is $1, $2 and $5 bills in my wallet.

 

Well, switching to a compostable composition was a big step in that direction. Nobody cared about copper pennies in the sock drawer or glove compartment, but when Zincolns rot into a pile of salts that can actually corrode other stuff -- well, there's your incentive!

 

uh, they stopped printing them [$500 & $1,000 bills] in 1934, or there about, at least that is [I believe] the last date on them.

So, any you find/locate are worth a nice premium.


I sincerely doubt that drug dealers or criminals would pay a collector's premium to have a $500 or $1,000 bill.

Google is our friend

 

I know many countries (including the EU) make the lowest denomination coin out of steel...in the case of the EU they plate it with copper. Would that lower costs?

I know this creates other issues such as coin sorters using magnets and angering the zinc lobby...but would it save cost?

Care to explain your reasoning...in a way that doesn't cause a moderator to edit it?

 

I understand that the Kennedy Half is still being produced...that's my whole point. Since 2002 they have been minted in low numbers but not issued for circulation.

Congress has killed coins in the past (the half cent for example) but it does seem less likely today.

 

research I've done pans out that to make copper plated steel cents, it would cost .8 cents each, and that's based on the EU cost model for what they are doing.

no idea about "the zinc lobby" or magnets in coin sorters, or any of that jazz, but it would bring it under a cent to make each one though.

 

So criminals do use credit cards to pay for their drugs? I don't think cartels would do that. Or maybe they just carry around a thick wad of tens and twenties? How would you pay for something that costs several thousand dollars without it being tracked?