The NGC Registry Will Recognize CAC coins

So you agree with me. They can’t ban PCGS coins from their registry and they can’t do nothing and allow PCGS to take their lunch money everyday. The only solution is to allow PCGS coins but not give them the same value as NGC graded coins.

 

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Not exactly, simply allowing the coins is letting PCGS take their lunch money. Their own press release was free advertising for PCGS. They either need to allow them as an equal or ban them and take the hit. They should have never allowed them but since they did they either play the little brother forever or they ban them and try and build a new group of participants.

Trying to sit on the fence like this just makes no one happy. The people that want them allowed don’t like they’re penalized and the people that want all ngc don’t want them allowed at all.

When you try and please everyone, you please no one

 

You really seem to obsessed with making NGC the top service by interfering with the way they run their registry, @Lehigh96. That is not going to change anything. A great many collectors admire the NGC stance on giving PCGS coins a close to equal footing with the NGC slab on their registry. They say, with justification, that their registry is more reflective of the collections that exist as opposed to the PCGS registry which allows only their product. Once again we shall agree to disagree.

A fairly well-know dealer once said to me, "There is not much difference in the grading room" (between PCGS and NGC). From what I have seen, that statement is mostly correct. The trouble is many of the good NGC coins that are properly graded get crossed over to PCGS. That makes the NGC population look worse than it really would be if their coins didn't get crossed.

Unfortunately there are a small number of NGC graded coins that leave me asking myself, "NGC, why did you do that?" I'm talking about coins that have really been messed with. Those pieces should have gone into body bags in the old days or "details" holders today. It seems to happen more with gold, and sometimes the questionable grading has a huge effect on the value.

 

I'm not interested in making NGC the top service, on the contrary, I just want them to hold their spot.

For lack of a better analogy, I don't want NGC to become Sham in the 1973 Belmont stakes, while PCGS (Secretariat) destroys the competition.

From the cheap seats, I am an NGC guy and always have been, but they are always behind PCGS. For example, since their turnaround time on Economy Tier submissions has ballooned to 53 days, they have been inundated with concerned submitters whose packages have been delivered but take weeks to enter in the NGC computer system. As a fix, they created a tool that allows submitters to confirm that NGC has received their coins and that they are safe (see link below).

New NGC Tool Lets Submitters Confirm Delivery of Their Submission

And while I appreciate their effort to solve that problem, it is a problem that PCGS solved years ago with a similar feature.

Furthermore, why is their turnaround time 53 freaking days?????? That is insane. With shipping time included, that is a 3 month process to get your coins graded.

Why is your desire to get full value for PCGS coins in the NGC Registry more important than my concern that PCGS strike designations are much more lenient than NGC and don't deserve the the same point values?

Do you understand that I also have PCGS graded coins in my registry sets[/URL]

 

Very simple. If you get your way and only give half credit to PCGS coins on the NGC registry, the set rankings will be meaningless. There will be sets that are far better than those above them. Does that make any sense to you? Yea, I know it does.

We can agree to disagree.

NGC already has the option to rank NGC only sets. Isn't that good enough for you?

As for changing my buying patterns, prior to CAC, it would not have changed them at all. I buy the coin, not the service. Now that CAC is ruling the U.S. coin market, I don't buy any expensive U.S. coins at all. By far the most expensive coin in my collection is in an NGC holder. It's worth 6 figures. I also have a Panama Pacific round $50 gold piece in an NGC holder. It's better than the PCGS octagonal coin I have, which is also and MS-64 CAC. Yes, the NGC coin is better.

You may not realize it, but NGC is #1 for foreign and ancient coins. PCGS is way behind them in those areas.

 

I have a handful down there right now. I agree it's ridiculous. Only thing I can figure is they must have a lot of people paying for express and they're taking priority while the economy submissions pile up. It wasn't that long of a wait when I sent them. Early bird standard for $38 a coin plus $10 handling fee for 20 days is what economy used to be at $15. Now that's considered early. They say they're hiring in all departments. Looks like they need more graders asap.

I learned on their forum that they have their own P.O. box in the NGC facility. So your submission arrives at the P.O. box and doesn't get accepted for 2-3 weeks and people panic thinking their stuff is sitting at Sarasota's post office. That's just the backlog. They can't even get to their mail. I assume that wait doesn't count towards the 53 "working" days?

 

Express and economy generally wouldn’t be the same graders. Economy is for 300 or less while express is 10k. PCGS had a similar thing happen when they got killed by submissions all at once, but they’ve been doing a lot of overtime and saturdays as I’ve had a submission change well after business hours, might be time for NGC to do the same.

Volume is clearly up for it at both, but yea at some point you just have to say we need to start digging out of this as 53 business days is like a 4 month turn around if you’re lucky.

Unfortunately it doesn’t. Clock starts once it’s put in the system.

 

Early Bird is a max value of $3,000. Express is 10k. If you want to pay the Express fee and send in pocket change, they'll grade it in 9 working days.

Notice at the top. Today is 5/14/21. They're currently opening mail, "accepting" coins from nearly four weeks ago if you count this week. So Economy is actually closer to 80 day turn around right now. For $22 per.

They said on their chat boards that they are working weekends and overtime to try to clear the backlog. You have to wonder if quality will suffer or if they'll spend less time on some material.

 

Being a month behind opening things for them sounds like something more is going on. Even PCGS at the worst of it was really only 2-3 weeks behind and they’re in CA with a lotttttttttttt more restrictions than FLA and they dug out of that to more reasonable times pretty fast for entering into the system.

I dunno how their structure works but it’s not out of the question they maybe moved some people over to their cards department for receiving trying to take advantage of the fact PSA was so swamped they had to stop submissions for the time being besides the top tier and are just letting coins suffer with how cards are on fire

Of course you can always use a higher tier, you could walkthrough a coin off the street if you really wanted to.

 

There are NGC sets that are better than some of those in the PCGS Registry, but you can't see them because PCGS doesn't allow NGC coins in their registry. Without reciprocity from PCGS, NGC should not give full value to PCGS coins in their registry. Does than make any sense to you? Yea, I know it does.

I am aware of that. Are you aware that NGC does not allow PCGS coins in World Registry Sets?

 

I'm sure that if NGC ran a promotion for registry set participants giving a discount for crossovers, many would take advantage. The scary part is the possibility of downgrading, and the process taking 4+months.

 

Timing is important. I got a coin graded by NGC last month and it only took 10 days to get it back. It was an unusual and quite rare gold coin but because it was clearly a details coin it's value fit into a lower tier. They completely messed up the grading (they left off the mintmark in the final capsule) but they also owned the mistake and with a wee bit of encouragement the coin went back and forth to them for correction via overnight mail both ways. I was concerned but grateful they came through. So ... I have a leading set on their registry (1840 mint set) which would be winning whether or not it was only NGC coins, but it makes perfect sense to me that they accept and give the same points to coins graded by either service. I've never considered crossing a coin just to get it into a registry set, and partly for that reason the NGC registry is far more fun and interesting than the PGCS only folks. When they stopped accepting PCGS coins I lost interest in them (NGC). This 1840 set is a mixture of NGC and PCGS. A little less than half of these have CAC cert. Three coins in the set are not pictured here, including an AU details 1840D quarter eagle and a couple of dimes. I am looking forward to including the CAC designations, with or without extra points. My experience of CAC is that they favor coins with original surfaces and as a result I've learned a lot about what is original and what is not. It's not always easy to tell, but then sometimes it's pretty obvious when a coin does not have original surfaces. Most of the coins in this set at least might have original surfaces -

 

More to add to the folly of collecting holders. Nothing more. Move along

 

So I was checking on registry value differences between a 64 and a 65 on a coin I need in a sub-set, and I see that NGC has changed their registry value score chart to reflect the CAC addition. (A new layout I'll have to get used to.)

Anyway, I noticed that in one of my sets I had an NGC MS66+ as the 'show' coin, but I also have a PCGS MS66+ CAC of the same coin. So I removed the NGC coin from the set, and replaced it with the PCGS coin. Guess what? I moved up 2 spots in the rankings just by that small move.

So in a nutshell, I gained ground by removing an NGC coin (which I think has more eye appeal), and replacing it with a PCGS coin.

Yay Me!

 

It sounds like PCGS coins would be preferred, which is not the case. You simply removed coin A w/o CAC sticker and added coin B of the same grade, which is CAC approved. Eye appeal doesn‘t matter unless the coin was star-graded by NGC. PCGS does not do this.

E.g. looking at below example - Early Half Dollars / 1809 XXX edge Bust half dollars:
XF 40 = 539
XF40/CAC green = 566
XF40/CAC gold = 630

A star-graded XF40 also scores 630 points, which means that in this case a star is as good as a gold CAC sticker. As only NGC coins can have the star designation, they‘re still slightly preferred over PCGS coins. Note that the nicest VF coin, even with a star, has a lower score than any XF coin. So the additional „CAC score“ does not seem to be a game changer.

 

I think you missed what I was getting at;

1) - An NGC coin is no longer in the registry (I think this is not what NGC was hoping for)
2) - I bumped up 2 places just because of the CAC (this is a good thing for me)

 

Regarding 1) you can always replace NGC with PCGS coins, no matter the grade. I would have sent the (eye appealing) NGC coin to CAC instead of replacing it with a (not so nice) PCGS coin.

Regarding 2) just saying „wow my set got bumped up two places“ doesn’t mean a lot, as this does not tell us how much your individual coin‘s score increased with the CAC sticker. What‘s the bonus for a CAC sticker? Is it 10% or more? What‘s the score of a coin at the next lower/higher grade?

 

Nevermind.

 

I just checked and my 1832 AU55/CAC Bustie only received an additional 9 points :-(