I've heard about pvc damage to coins and I've never personally come in contact with it, is my bottom holder in this pic the type that will cause the damage?? Whitman holder? If not, anyone got a pic of the type of holder or holders?
In my oppion, the main culprit for PVC on coins are the little 2 X 2 paper holder with the plastic windows. If coins are to be stored for any period of time they should be kept in something safer...
From what I understand, PVC is a chemical used to soften plastic, so as to make them more flexible, so I don't believe that the holder you pictured would contain it. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can give you a more definitive answer though.
I just read an article about it and the main cause of damage was from the paper flip holders with a plastic window,they also have a paper flip holder with mylar window,the mylar is reasonably safe because it doesnt contain near as much of the softening or flexability chemical which is what was damaging the coins. Plastics that are soft and stretchy contain this chemical,not the harder plastics.
Are you talking about these little flips?? DAng ,x!#%&*!! I got a whole binder full of coins in these little flips!! Oh well, I look at them alot, I hope if I notice damage it will only be on a cheap 39 cent token or something. :kewl: Any idea how long it takes for one of them flips to totally mess up a coin? anyone?
However, I don't necessarily recommend it, but it can be removed with several different dips made available. I had about 20 to come back from grader labeled PVC active, so I tried some, this was several years back, and resubmited them and they all came back clean and graded.
The hard plastic holders that you show, do not initiate the damage. PVC to be flexible ( unlike the hard PVC tubing for lawn watering sytems) has to have chemical plasticizers, and it is those that cause the initial damage to the coin. So flexible flips, pages, etc, are what one must find it it is PVC ( possible harm), and not mylar or polypropylene, etc. If a coin has damage started, and transferred to hard ( or safe flexible) plastic, it still can continue the damage if moisture and environmental factors are present, so a watchful eye is the best protection in the long run. Jim
I have cardboard 2x2 holders over 25 years old, and all of the plastic with them is mylar film. If yours are not that old, they should be safe. Plastic 2x2 flips should be evaluated before long term storage. It is possible to buy a coin on ebay or elsewhere, put it into a safe holder, and then a short time afterwards see corrosion initiated by PVC before you bought it, and the damage continued in the safe holder since it was not humidity or gas tight. I dip newly obtained coins in an acetone rinse, allow to air dry, before I put it into a mylar flip. The downside to this is that you may find that someone used a method to reduce scratches or marks, and the acetone removed the wax. Jim
For PVC to leech out of the flip can take anywhere from a few days to years. It depends on storage conditions. For the PVC residue to damage the coin usually takes longer, but again it depends. Sometimes PVC residue can be removed leaving no damage visible and other times it is readily visible. So there is no simple answer to your question. You really only have 1 choice when dealing with PVC flips/materials - get rid of all them immediately. If the flip/holder is soft and pliable (meaning it bends easily) then it has PVC in it.
Pvc Yes those are the ones...I know there seems to be no way to avoid it, but you can dip your coins and remove it, however dip will sometimes change the color of your coin (esp copper). I keep most of mine in Mylar 2 X 2 pocket type flips. If you do decide to dip your coin (s), don't scrub them or you'll scratch the surface, just dip and rinse, nothing harder than the tip of your fingers is a good rule of thumb..excluding fingernails!!:thumb:
....i think those you have are safe. the ones to worry about are the flexible plastic flips and albums that have the soft flexible pockets and they tend to have an odor resembling a shower curtain. hth
So this is new to me. Do the 2x2 cardboard holders contain enough of it to warrant changing the coins to mylar? I have a few NCG coins that have PVC growing on them now that wasnt there when I got them. Real nice coins high grade too but it's obvious now that it's there. So if it can happen to those that worries me and I want to make them safe.
NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! The cardboard 2X2 did have PVC windows briefly, about 50 to 60 years ago. Almost all cardboard 2X2's were made first with cellophane and then later with mylar plastic for the windows. Both of these plastics are completely harmless. This is wrong. PVC, Polyvinyl chloride, is a hard somewhat brittle plastic. This is wrong. There are several plastics that are "soft and stretchy" naturally and do not require any softening plasticizers. This is partially correct! This is correct. Typically if you see a coin with "PVC residue" on it in a cardboard 2X2, it is because the residue was on the coin when it was put into the 2X2. PVC can't leach out of the flip, the flip IS PVC. He is correct about the plasticizer used to soften the PVC though. Correct. PVC is a hard brittle plastic. A plasticizer, typically a phenolated oil, is added to the pastic to make it soft and pliable. Over time this oil will leach out of the plastic and coat the coin. In general neither the plastic nor the oil will damage the coin. HOWEVER as the plastic ages it also tends to outgas HCl gas and that gas can disolve into the oil. The oil also tend to be hydroscopic and it will absorb water vapor out of the air. When the water mixes with the HCl you get hydrochloric acid which the oil is now holding in contact with the surface of the coin. The hydochloric acid attacts the copper in the alloy and etches the surface of the coin. A byproduct of the reaction is copper chloride which is green in color, hence the name "green slime" for PVC residue. A coin removed from a PVC flip that shows no green color and put in another holder may still have oil with hydrochloric acid in it on the coin and the green may appear later in the other holder. True in general, but there are also holders made of Polyethylene which is a naturally soft plastic which is safe for coins. And to answer the original question, both of the holders pictured in the OP are safe for coins.
One thing not mentioned here....collectors usually just conserve PVC damage by soaking in acetone. This will not completely cure the problem. The first step should be a soak in VERY mildly alkaline conditions to neutralize the hydrochloric acids. I recommend adding just a few specks of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) to a small volume of distilled water and dissolving. Soak the coin in this prior to soaking in acetone.
