In your experience, what is the best way to buy these? Graded? Raw? I will be looking around but I want to hear from some of y'all so I can weigh the pros and cons. :thumb:
In order to answer that question, we would need to know what your goal is. From my perspective, these coins are very affordable even certified in MS67. It is a short set that the finest quality is available at a minimum of expense. However, if you were planning to assemble an album set, raw would definitely be the way to go. Raw sets are very fun btw.
I really just want to collect some nice ones, yeah like you have!! Just kidding of course, I mean I'd like to have some really nice ones but I don't really have the funds. I will not be filling an album or anything specific, I just really love the way they look;. I went to a 1 day coin show today and I was looking at some graded nickels and although the regular Jeffersons looked great, the war nickels looked shabby in comparison. I picked up a set of 11 in a capital holder, hope I spelled that right. I'll post pics at a later date. I looked at around 20 graded, all by different graders, including PCGS, NGC, ICG and there was even an SGS in there. The SGS was actually one of the best looking ones, don't ask me why but that's what the guy had. My feeling was that the graded war nickels averaged in price of $185. Anyways, I didn't want to just go by that experience and wanted to find out what y'all think. :thumb:
I bought a raw set at one time. I wanted to get a set of these and it took a fairly long time to catch a set I consider quite beautiful at an affordable price. Mine aren't toned like Lehighs are, and I know they have been dipped. That is fine by me because who ever dipped them really knew what they were doing. I have seen raw circulated sets priced at what $10.00 to $20.00 or so. I saw a set of slabbed at somewhere between $600.00 and $700.00. I don't remember the grade on these, but it was very high about a year or so ago. I do remember the entire set was the same grade and graded by PCGS.
Yes, the graded ones certainly were pricey. I felt lucky to see a graded one for $85 dollars! Oh and the one for $85 really wasn't that nice, guess that's why it was only $85. Today is the first time I took a loupe with me so I got a better idea of what these war nickels go for, and what I need to look out for. :thumb: BTW, how high is the grading on war nickels and how hard is it to find some with full clear steps?
Anyways, yesterday after looking over the graded war nickels and not having enough cash for the really nice ones, and not being pleased with the ones I could get, I ended up buying this set. It's a gem set of beauty and color, a couple or few winners on these 11 for sure. After I have a couple of friends take a look at them I will decide which ones to have graded, if any at all. Maybe I will just leave it alone, it surely is a babe of a set. Sorry about the pics, that's the best I can do for right now. You can tell these have been in the set for sometime. Anyways, I got a good set and a new nickel connection. Not bad!! :kewl: What I don't get is with all the years that have passed on these war nickels (some 60 plus years) it must be really difficult to find one which is truly gem bu. Oh well, I am determined to get a few more in my collection really soon!!. Any tips on grading steps??
This is of course courtesy of www.Varietynickels.com one of the greatest sources for Jefferson Nickels Understanding Full Steps The author('s) of this article is unknown---The most we can find is that it seems to have been put together from a few different articles. If you know any different, or know who wrote it please write us HERE. Thanks-- The Staff. Understanding Full StepsStep count grading, using the four quarter step count, was introduced by the F.S.N.C. in 2000. In this short time it has made a great change in the grading of full step Jefferson nickels. This system serves as a protection for collectors and dealers alike. It is a very simple grading system that will give all the gem quality Jefferson nickels a fair rating, equality, and advanced collectability. Many rare date gem nickels, not in 5 full steps, that are known with weak strikes and poor step count get over looked and misgraded. This grading and number system will give each coin and step pattern its fair designation. Also, in this method, one can read the four digit number and basically know what the steps on the coin look like without actually seeing it. The step count is performed by mentally dividing the step area vertically into four quarters, between the pillars of the porch. Take a look at the sample: Click to enlargeMany questions arise when asked "What is a full step nickel and how do you count the steps?" In 1938 the die engraver's first attempt at producing steps on the Jefferson nickel was far from successful. The steps were weak and wavy and the dies would wear quickly resulting in the steps 'bridging' together and going flat. A redesign in late 1939 was a much better attempt. The steps were cut in a straight and deeper line. The new Type-II die would last much longer, but with such fine detail, the steps would eventually bridge together and go flat. Not a perfect design but that's what makes our hobby fun! Another problem with the die design was with the obverse die. The high point on the obverse is Jefferson's head and hair details. It is exactly opposite the lower steps under pillar number three. Click to enlarge This is why you see many almost full step nickels missing a very small part of the fifth step under the third pillar (5-5-4-5). Also, the die materials in the earlier years of the Jefferson nickel's production was much inferior to today's super alloy, resulting in broken dies and chipping (die cracks and CUDS). The die is designed to strike six steps, five CUT lines, the sixth step being the bottom of the fifth cut line. With the problem of the alignment of the obverse die stealing metal flow, the sixth step is rare or non existent on many dates. Many proof nickels do not have the sixth full step either. The early collectors and the first Full Step Nickel Club (P.A.K.) determined that five full steps would be the standard for the "Full Step Nickel". The answer to how you count the steps starts with the die engraver. By cutting the five deep straight lines it gives the appearance of steps (tread and riser). A 10x+ loupe or 10x30x microscope should be used for examination. When viewing the steps, slowly tilt the coin back and fourth. This will let the light find it's way into the cut area and highlight the steps. The SHINY line being the tread and the DARK line being the riser. Imagine walking up the steps of Monticello. To climb the steps you first must step up to step number six. The next step up would be number five, then four, three, two, and the last would be the top, number one step. Once at the top you would be standing next to one of the four pillars. When counting the steps on your Jefferson nickels start with the top, number one, step and work your way down the remaining five. Starting with step number one your count must be completed from the side cut line on the left to the side cut line on the right. If the line breaks or flattens into the step above this will stop the step count. Severe bag marks and deep cuts will also stop the count. Rarity will determine the problem of bag marks in the steps.STEP FLAWS There are many types of problems that happen in the step area, from very small to very large. These problems may be caused by poor or rough planchets or can be caused by production and shipping techniques. Many of the nickels in the Jefferson series are rare to very rare in full steps. Because of this we believe a full step nickel with a nick, tick, cut, or bridge should be graded accordingly and given a full step designation with the problem listed. This method tends to 'level the playing field' and provide more precise value to your full step nickels. To date, S.E.G.S is the only third party grading service that utilizes the 'four quarter' step grading system as well as noting any flaws on their holders. A description of each step flaw follows: TICK A very small indentation ON or ACROSS the steps. This could be caused by light scuff during striking, bagging, or rolling. It also could have been in the planchet before striking. I believe rough planchets are the cause of the majority of ticks. Almost every full step nickel has a tick somewhere. Generally, ticks cannot be seen with the naked eye so 10x or stronger magnification will be needed to spot this small infraction. NICK A small indentation or light nick ON or ACROSS the step area. This is also caused by rough planchets and the striking or bagging process. A magnifying device will be needed to spot the majority of nicks. We do not believe a nick should stop a full step nickel from receiving it's fair full step designation. It's a full step nickel WITH a nick, and, in many dates and Mints, it's a rare coin.CUT A very large or deep cut ON or ACROSS the steps. A cut can usually be seen without the aid of magnification. A low powered magnifying glass will spot them easily. Cuts happen after the coin has been struck and will usually stop the nickel from receiving a full step designation. BRIDGE Two or more steps run together in a small area. This problem usually occurs under pillar number two on the third and fourth steps. The problem was on the master die and occurs many times on 50's and 60's nickels. The SMS nickels of 1965, 1966, and 1967 show a good example of this. Frosted nickels also show a lot of bridging due to the beading process of the die. It should be said that depending on the grading service bridged coins are sent to they may or may not come back as full steps. NGC and PCGS both have different guidelines for grading FS nickels. To learn more about those see here:
For tips on grading steps, use the excellent guide provided above along with my thread from earlier this year. http://www.cointalk.com/t49827/ With the exception of the 1945-S, all of the war nickels are readily available in MS66 5FS. Once you demand MS67 or 6FS, only the 1943-D and 1944-D remain affordable (under $200). When collecting war nickels, the key is patience. There are thousands of phenomenal war nickels out there which means there is no reason to sacrifice quality in any area. Don't ever buy one you are not completely happy with. Look for well struck examples with blazing luster. Remember, well struck does not mean full steps. It is possible to have a full step coin with a relatively crappy strike. Look for complete hair detail and all windows and doors should be visible without a loupe. Luster is the key. War nickels have a brilliance that is all their own and can be found dripping with luster (see example below). I think your impulse buy in the capital holder is going to turn out great. My guess is that when you see that 1942-S in hand, the toning is going to knock your socks off. If you ever need an opinion about a future war nickel purchase, feel free to PM me for my opinion. Paul
I wish the industry would learn to embrace the quarter-step method of grading. The current method of determining "full steps" is really quite preposterous. You can have an excellent strike, but if the coin fell the wrong way in the bag, then it's not full steps. I think a 5-5-5-5 coin should be close to, but not quite equivalent to, a full-step coin. Just because there's a tick doesn't necessarily mean there is any less of a full strike. It just means a coin took an unfortunate beating. I've long purchased coins based on the quarter-step method, disregarding all but the most heinous of ticks/nicks/cuts on the steps. Can't we all just get along?
I've got a whole bunch o' these that i picked out of the change many, many years ago....and also one that I bought from Paul many ,many, last year. I love this series....
Fretboard, was that the red lion inn coin show that you attended? I agree, in general the prices for slabbed coins were really inflated at that show. You can get slabbed war nickels for less $$$ on feebay. But it is always nicer to buy at shows because you are able to see and touch the product in-hand opposed to relying on other people's feedback and questionable photos. -LTB
Hello Paul , an' yes ,,,,I also have a 1945-S Jeff/ms65/PL coin,,,,it's really awesome! Only (1) has been graded out in NGC ,,,,None in PCGS ,,,,
