What happened to this coin?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Insider, May 10, 2021.

  1. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    I see it now.
    Full Strike Frost.
    Interesting thread
     
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  3. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    I don't know as I was not there; however, Doug claims there is a beveled edge visible so that could indicate the planchet got jammed in the upset mill which left a deep, curved scrape.

    Anyway, this characteristic did not happen after the coin was struck.

    FLAT Strike Frost.
     
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  4. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    And there is, it's plainly visible on the I, C, A, E, and M.

    If you know what an upset mill looks like and how it works you'd know that wasn't possible.

    [​IMG]


    And the upset mill has a trench on one side that the planchet fits into. And the planchet is pushed along by a wheel through that trench, and the pressure squeezes the metal forcing it to form a raised and rounded edge all along the edge of the planchet. The planchet is also supported on the bottom by a plate precisely so it is trapped by the trench, and the plate, and the wheel, to keep it from falling out.

    Yes it did because that's the only you could end up with the beveled edge on the letters - the angle of which is the same on every letter. But the bevel is cut deeper in some letters than it is the others, which was caused by whatever cut that bevel raising and lowering as I described previously. But the bevel angle is the same on all letters.

    Yeah, I'm well familiar with it and have written about it many times. I understand the name you're using and why, but it's not really frost, rather it's a lack of luster because when a weak strike occurs the area that is weakly struck never touches the dies, and it is touching the dies that creates luster. And areas of a weak strike are readily identified by the lack of luster, and the fact that the metal is always a different color than the areas having luster, (and also wear by the way). And areas of weak strike are always bumpy with a texture, an almost globular texture. It's slight but it's always there.

    That said, the beveled areas of the letters do not have this bumpy uneven texture. Instead they have a basically flat surface that is covered by scratches. The exact same kind of scratches metal has when some thing grinds it down.

    And that's what happened to this coin, something, post strike ground it down.
     
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I'm gonna add one more thing to this discussion.

    One last thing for you to consider. Just for the hell of it let's assume that the planchet was damaged pre-strike. That somehow something gouged, scraped, cut - choose your word - into the planchet leaving that beveled metal, at that specific angle, in places. OK ?

    Now then, what actually happens to the metal, in the raised areas like the devices and legends ? The metal is forced into the die recesses by the pressure right ? That much is undeniable.

    But here's the kicker, when the metal moves and starts to fill the die recesses, it does not move in flat and stable plane. It moves in an uneven plane, its top surface becomes lumpy and bumpy as it starts to move, it doesn't stay flat, it changes shape completely and totally because it's being squeezed from below. And that makes it impossible for any pre-existing angle in the metal caused by a gouge or whatever to be maintained at that flat, and specific angle.

    And that Mike means it's impossible for those angles, those bevels, to have been cut into the metal pre-strike.
     
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