PCGS to no longer guarantee RD/RB for copper

I understand the need to limit the guarantee on the color of copper since most RD copper will tone/darken over time, whether it takes 10 years, 25 years or 250 years. However, I am still in shock that PCGS will now have 0 guarantee on the color of copper and will not even guarantee for a minimal period, whether it be a year or two or even 10 like NGC.

Enough folks mess with copper before submitting and the problems from such doctoring don't always show up until a few months or even years pass. That's why I've bought PCGS coins when buying a piece of RD copper in the past. Since I"m not an expert enough to be able to identify such doctoring in all cases, I trust PCGS in their opinion and was further reassured that even if something slipped by them I'm still covered by their guarantee.

Now, if I'm going to buy RD copper, I'm either going to buy an NGC piece that has some guarantee against the coin growing spots or toning oddly in the near future, or I'm going to buy PCGS coins in the older style holders so that I know they haven't been touched for 10-15 years or more and are likely stable in their appearance. I will not be buying any RD copper in the recent style of PCGS holders as I have no reassurance that the coin will not grow ugly because of doctoring (perhaps unless the dealer selling it to me gives me a guarantee against such an issue).

I am somewhat relieved that my current RD coins in PCGS holders will still be covered, though I'm not sure what proof of ownership/purchase date information will need to be produced in order to make a claim on the guarantee if my copper colors change. I also hope that the non-transferability of the guarantee doesn't significantly affect the values of my coins. I think that potential problem would be resolved if PCGS changed their insert labels starting 1/1/10 (and/or put the year graded on the slab) so that copper buyers know how long a coin has been slabbed and thus how long it's been since it potentially was messed with.

Moreover, I think the current state of the PCGS copper guarantee is unclear. For example, one of the coins PCGS had to pay out on the guarantee on was a MS65RD 1969-S DDO that was apparently messed with. The coin was later regraded as MS64RB after PCGS had to write a check. Now under the current "guarantee" the downward color change presumably wouldn't be covered, but I think the downgrade from 65 to 64 should be. As many of you know, spotting/toning that occurs on copper not only affects the color designation, but can also affect the actual grade (which PCGS will still cover under my interpretation of their new policy). That said, I hope it's not me or any of you who are the guinea pigs who test how PCGS will handle such a future claim on their "guarantee."

 

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This is a good thing.

 

Will be interesting to see as well. Based on my understanding of CAC, they also offer a guarantee of the coins they sticker. Not sure how their guarantee works in practice though.

 

Rick Snow has stated that his Eagle Eye Photoseal is still guaranteed, way to go Rick !!!!

Looks like I will need to get on the ball and check for " iffys" in my personal set. A blowout of questionable RD's on the bay and the BST's will not suprise me, I may join in.

 

Now, if I'm going to buy RD copper, I'm either going to buy an NGC piece that has some guarantee against the coin growing spots or toning oddly in the near future, or I'm going to buy PCGS coins in the older style holders so that I know they haven't been touched for 10-15 years or more and are likely stable in their appearance. I will not be buying any RD copper in the recent style of PCGS holders as I have no reassurance that the coin will not grow ugly because of doctoring (perhaps unless the dealer selling it to me gives me a guarantee against such an issue). [Quoted previous comment.]

The fact that the Coin is in an older TPG holder and has not turned in 10-15 yrs means nothing. Any red copper coin will eventually turn. How long? Only Time and storage techniques will determine.

 

Good to see you're still with us Jack. Been quiet around here without you.
Guy~

 

Of course someday in the very long future my red copper in older olders will fade, maybe 10 years, maybe 100 years, maybe 1000 years, depending on how I store and care for it.

However, knowing that it hasn't turned ugly in the past few years, or even the past 10-15 years is very important and does mean something. it means that the coin wasn't screwed with by the doctors and/or even if the coin was messed with a good enough job was done to where the surfaces of the coin are relatively stable. Since PCGS doesn't release dates of grading, an older style holder is the only proof easily available that the coin hasn't been messed with in awhile. You could also search auction records/dates sold to sort of determine the age of the slabs for coins in newer style holders, but that is much more tedious.

 

Guy
It has been quite hectic, but I am back bud......Allow me to ease in smoothly, lol. Haywire personal things are calming down by the week:goofer: