As one of the non-coin collector members of this forum, please be patient with my ignorance. Soon after my son's birthday in 1995, I bought a raw 1895 Indian Head penny (more red than brown) from a pretty reputable dealer who said that he believed the coin was from an original roll. I also bought a few other coins, both certified and raw, dated 1895 and 1795 from various dealers in the late 90's early 2000's. None of the coins are too expensive, but they are meaningful to me, at least. At this summer's ANA coin convention in LA, I used my free submissions to PCGS to submit this 1895 copper coin along with a few other raw coins from 1895, as well as a few coins from my daughter's birth year (1798 and 1898). The copper coin had remained unchanged in appearance for more than a decade. This copper coin came back "genuine with questionable coloring." Growl. No big loss. Could this genuine grading have been a result of PCGS's tightening their grading RB coins? As an aside, I was initially saddened to see that the 1895 $10 gold coins I had bought inexpensively when gold was cheap in 2000 was in an old PCI slab graded MS61. Damn! Not trusting cross-overs while in a slab from another TPGer, I cracked the coin out. Free of the slab, the coin showed an unsightly bluish-red marking on the face. (In retrospect, this is probably a copper mark.) Double damn. Oh, well. I held my breath and sent the coin off to PCGS along with my other coins. The coin came back MS62. Opinions are appreciated about the copper grade on the Indian penny. guy
Uh-Oh...the spelling police are after you. Too many Os....not enough Ps....Copper. That aside....It probably has everything to do with the new policy. Copper spots are common on older gold coins. Don't know much about that, but I think it would certainly affect grade as much as strength (or weakness) of strike would. Nightowl
Without seeing the coin - I do not think their new policy came into effect. I think PCGS was just in doubt of the color, so went with the questionable coloring designation. And it could have been in an original roll, but no telling the storage conditions. Just my opinion.
Thank you, Mark, for your input. So there are still original rolls around of 19th century coins? Although the coin in question is relatively inexpensive, I am glad that I probably wasn't scammed. Thanks, again, guy
I would think any rolls from the 19th century were made up by someone in the 2oth century , I don't believe they even rolled coins back then , and even if they did they would have been searched for cherry coins . Sorry . rzage
RD, RB and BN are attributes generally applied to copper coins that grade in the AU and MS ranges. I don't believe they affect (or at least they shouldn't) the grade of a coin any more than Doubled Dies, RPD's, RPM's, etc. affect the grade.
Yes - they are correct about the wrapping. I was thinking more of a roll wrapped and saved for decades - just not in 1895. I remember my mom telling me how they got to spend IHC's in the late 40's and early 50's from her parents stash. At that time they really were not worth anything in the condition they were in, so they spent some rolls of them. The only things grandpa kept was maybe 6 IHC's(I have those) and two morgans(dad has those).
Grading is subjective. TPGs grade subjectively with a much larger variability than most realize. The OPs experience doesn't surprise me in the least. That's the coin game. All of the above IMO and based on my experience....Mike
I have seen rolls of uncurculated Indian Cents. I obviously don't know when the coins were initially placed into the wrappers or tubes, but it appeared as if they had remained together for decades.
Sending copper in to be graded can really mess with us average collectors. When the services see a look that they don't fell is normal, they have to question it. We may know that the coin came from a roll, but it goes in some type of holder and over the years we may change holders or albums several times. Any one of these holders or all of them can change the color of copper. The grading service has no way of knowing the history of the coin. All they know is that it's not the normal look and don't wish to guess if it was messed with. I'm glad they guess as little as possible. Lots of copper comes back as questionable.
