Why can people be cheap with selling their coins and vice versa?

BNB....You asked about a business model. The "Mr Nice GUY" model....sucks for air. You can do it if you choose....but it's not a good business model.

Nightowl

 

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Nice, but not realistic......

 

I agree with you that the greysheet is the fairest price guide out there, but if you're expecting to get greysheet ask prices for your coins from a dealer I think that is expecting a little too much.

Remember the Greysheet is really called The Coin Dealer newsletter. And it says right on the front cover:

(The bold face is theirs not mine).

 

Oh okay, I misread what you said. My mistake.

Yes I agree, to ask most dealers for grey sheet ask can be a bit much to expect but maybe I'm being a bit idealistic here with the thread but I don't know, I just wish we see some dealers just selling at lower prices like grey sheet just to give a good feeling back to the "what i feel" disenchanted customer.

And I'm just talking about the general casual customer, not an experienced one like you or Leadfoot.

 

As others have said - that isn't quite right, but besides all of that - I normally try to buy either 10% back of BID or at BID and then sell either at BID, or alittle more.

On most normal coins ASK is way to high, and BID is normally what alot of guys go by. Now, for a hard to find date, ASK might be too low, so it is really a case by case point...but just don't get caught up in thinking ASK is the way to go...in most cases if a dealer tells me his price is ASK, then I walk away.

Speedy

 

This reminds me of one coin "dealer" I know of, a nice enough guy to be sure, was a collector for years, had a terrible industrial accident and won the lawsuit lottery, he won enough that he was able to follow his dream of having his own coin shop.

The thing is he is still actually a collector, his coins are priced so that he can keep them, I am talking about commonI silver bullion for 7 over spot, low grade late indians for 4 bucks, his shop is a meeting place for his friends, they sit and watch the game and talk, he does not have to sell anything, and he generally doesn't.

I do not think greed has anything to do with it really, it is just that as a collector he buys things but rarely sells.

I understand that many people think that economics is the end all be all in peoples lives, and if someone did not hear the guys story or talk to him they might look at his prices and think he was trying to gouge people. But no, his store is more of a showplace for his collection, we talked for almost an hour, he showed me some of his latest acquisitions, told me what he paid and everything, he had three lincoln legacy sets, I asked him what he was asking for them, nothing they were not for sale, I told him that some were getting 150 on ebay for them, still not for sale.

Some people collect for children or grandchildren, he is unmarried, childless, he has a comfortable life and he more or less got his dream of owning a coin shop. I think for him having a coin shop ennables him to buy coins from the general public to add to his collection, but selling coins is not really part of his "business model".

 

Pricing and quality are too complex a subject for generalities that cover every case. Certainly if a person has commonly available coins, greysheet, or perhaps even a bit back of sheet might be the going retail price. On the other extreme, if another seller has high quality, very tough to find coins, they would be leaving a ton of money by selling at retail at or near sheet prices. This second seller will find it difficult to be able to replenish the hard to find inventory at prices where they can repeat the cycle.

Again, there is no one size fits all answer. Price and quality can be complex subjects.

 

raider34's quote from the Greysheet page 1 footnote is accurate. The last sentence from the footnote on the front page of every issue states:

"INVESTOR/COLLECTOR NOTE: The prices in this newsletter are from Dealer-to-Dealer transactions; you should expect to pay a premium above Ask when purchasing coins in a retail transaction; you may also commission a Dealer for your purchases."

We would all like to buy at Greysheet, but that is not a realistic expectation when purchasing on the Retail market.

 

Why? Because it is the lowest, or because it best matches the actual prices of coins in the market?

 

I learned long ago that it is much easier to buy coins than to sell them. I believe that I need to sell occasionally just to get a "feel" for the market.

I dislike dealers who won't quote a buy price, but expect the collector to price the coins. If you price too low, it's sold. If you price too high, it's "pass" or a counter offer.

I prefer to work with dealers who give me their price for a straight yes or no, and I believe that has served me well. For hi-dollar or PQ coins, I find auction to be the best way to go but you must cut a deal with the auction house (hammer +) to get good value and wait months to be paid.

In most cases, I am happy to get gray sheet. I recently tried to get sheet for some slabbed Morgans, and there were no takers. Today, gold is king and good prices are available for sellers willing to part with their gold.

 

Without question. In fact, I seem to recall recommending you to one in my first responses to you. I also try and buy from dealiers that fit this bill.

That said, you will not find many fitting that description on eBay and even fewer in B&M stores, in my experience.

 

First, I don't think the real world of buy and sell quite work this idealistically for far more than just the coin market BNB. Second, I'm sure there are disenchanted dealers in regards to buyers trying to low ball everything. They have to deal with it, they chose to be in the business. I would think most dealers would offer a better price to a good customer rather than a casual customer. Let's use Lehigh for an example (hope you don't mind Lehigh) and I'm a coin dealer. He has been a long term faithful customer buying my more high end coins, and I have learned over the course of time he lives 10 miles from my shop with others closer. This customer I want to keep much more than someone who comes in once or twice a year.

When you go into Target or Best Buy you either accept their price or go somewhere else. Plus the sales staff have no idea and don't care if you spent two dollars or two thousand dollars there last week. Off the top of my head cars and coins are about the last two items where we can make offers and counter offers. You go to a dealer, you think it is too high make an offer. If accepted fine, if not move on or reconsider if you want to go higher.

Your scenario could also be that you want to pay dealers a certain percentage over their asking price so they would start feeling better about their customers after awhile lowering their prices. I know this is ridiculous, but to me this is just the same practically just turned around.

 

Target or Best buy exist but they won't for long because of these online dealers were hardly any overhead that can sell things for steals..

 

But, that wasn't the point I was trying to make using these two retailers.

 

Why does it always seem like people want to deprive dealers of their profit, even online dealers need to make a profit. As mentioned ,as the buyer you can either accept their prices or move on you get to decide what you pay. And as a seller you can sell as cheap as you feel like it.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to get as much for something as possible. Most coin dealers have sole proprietor businesses and they deal with the customers directly...so you can often haggle. Also, there is that old saying "it's worth what someone is willing to pay."

However, the truth is...no price guide is 100% accurate. I'll give you an example. Let's say we are talking about 1892-O Morgan Dollars graded MS63. The gray sheet will list the ask price for this coin...lets say that price is $275 (I don't have a gray sheet handy so this number could be way off).

Now, imagine you see 3 1892-O Morgan's in a dealer's case. One is very poorly struck, one has a great strike and the other has a decent strike (not good but not poor) but has attractive rainbow toning. Clearly, these coins are not equal...yet they would all have the same value according to the gray sheet. You look at these 3 coins and they have the following prices (assuming $275 is the gray sheet ask price).

Poor Strike: $270
Great Strike: $615
Toned: $450

You might think those prices are crazy. How could a poorly struck coin be listed for the "ask" price. The toning makes sense (these coins often have large premiums)...but an excellent strike carrying that kind of premium! You might never return to that shop because the dealer appears to be a crook. However, you would be very wrong. The 1892-O is probably the worst struck coin in the Morgan series. Fully struck examples are very rare and carry huge premiums...none of this factor's into the gray sheet numbers. They account for the "average" coin of the grade...with this coin, that's a poorly struck example.

So, my point is...price guides are useful up to a point, but each coin must be individually analyzed to determine it's actual value. Although the gray sheet is probably the best there is...it's not the "end all" of value. You must know the coin you are purchasing well to make sure the price you are paying is fair...you can't just rely on the gray sheet because it doesn't have all the information.

 

I think you are correct. Also realize that $450.00 example of the toned coin may quite possibly be more than you would even come close to consider buying for that price. I come along and it is just what I wanted and really like it. Others I have seen similar were priced higher than $450.00, so I buy it and I'm very happy with my purchase.

 

Speaking of toning an old gray sheet(July 2006) I have talks about morgans and toning. The chart is like this:

bid moderate rainbow Exceptionally Toned Rainbow
ms63 39 150 to 250 1000
ms64 54 200-450 3500
ms65 170 350 - 500 5000 to 8000
ms66 340 800 - 1000 10000

Not sure if these prices hold true or not. Just thought it was worth mentioning.

 

.......i agree. just look in the coin world or numismatic news ads. you'll see prices quite different on every page.