1864 "Small Motto"?? I do not see it.

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by SJVM, Nov 23, 2009.

  1. SJVM

    SJVM Long Time Gone

    These are the best photos I have. The gentleman selling has finally realized his price in a few Morgans he is selling was quite high, but sticks to the $500 he wants for this. Everything I see tells me it is the common "Large Motto", but I would greatly appreciate some opinions. Thank you.
     

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  3. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    The photo of the motto is rather small, but the distinguishing feature is the stem area under the word "Trust". here is a URL, should make it easier to tell in hand, or print it out and show him.
    http://www.coinfacts.com/two_cents/1864_two_cents.html

    There might be an overlay covering the page until you click the close on the overlay since this is now a "Pay" site address.

    Jim
     
  4. illini420

    illini420 1909 Collector

    looks like a large motto to me
     
  5. SJVM

    SJVM Long Time Gone

    I know it is hard to tell for sure from the photos, but any opinions on its grade?? He says EF40 and I just do not see that either. I have a tendency to "under-grade"though.
     
  6. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    The pictures are better if you follow the original link.

     
  7. Louie_Two_Bits

    Louie_Two_Bits Chump for Change

    By no stretch of the imagination am I an expert, but in my opinion it's a large motto.

    The telltale for me is the word GOD. The first is the coin of interest, the second is the large from the page desertgem provided, and the last is the small motto...

    Look at the G, it isn't as short and fat as the small, the O seems more open, and the D is longer and its base is slanted in towards the O...whereas on the small, the D's base is slanted out.

    -LTB
     

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  8. coinman0456

    coinman0456 Coin Collector

    another way to identify the small motto issue, is that the "T" is closer to the lower portion of the ribbon.
     
  9. SJVM

    SJVM Long Time Gone

    More Photos

    He emailed me a few more photos and still claims that his has the "stem" that the large motto does not. Any more opinions?
     

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  10. illini420

    illini420 1909 Collector

    It's definitely a Large Motto and not worth the price he wants. Pass.
     
  11. SJVM

    SJVM Long Time Gone

    There was no way I was going to pay $500 anyways. Personally, I do not think it to be EF40. I believe he is going only by the photos in the "Red Book" and has very high hopes. "It all comes down to the stem" he says. Can anyone please tell me about this "stem"? The only one I see is on the right of the "WE" and has no leaves sprouting off of it, where the large motto does.
     
  12. abe

    abe LaminatedLincolnCollector

    Can anyone make out the feathers on the arrows? Large motto has 3 feathers on the outside, and 4 on the inside on both arrows. Small motto has, on the left feathers, 3 on the outside 5 on the inside. The right has 4 feathers on the outside and 5 on the inside.
     
  13. abe

    abe LaminatedLincolnCollector

    Just got a good look at the banner tip, 100% lg. motto. Sm. motto is alot more curved...
     
  14. PennyGuy

    PennyGuy US and CDN Copper


    You're getting good advice. It is not a Small Motto. Here's another pic, my NGC MS63BN Small Motto.
     

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  15. Jim M

    Jim M Ride it like ya stole it

    Certainly a LM.. maybe he doesnt know any better and just seen the higher priced one in a 1982 Redbook?
     
  16. abe

    abe LaminatedLincolnCollector

    A beautiful small motto. Compare the banner tips on this coin and the 1st coin. The motto is inside the banner, the banner tips look like crab claws. Even on a worn small motto you can see the difference...
     
  17. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    You don't see it because it isn't.
     
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