1652 oaktree shilling

i think this is real, if there is anything that you guys see that makes fake, tell me.

it is 27.5 mm at 69.2 grains. and from a few other sites i have looked on have some for sale around that size and width. the only thing is the coloring? the ones i have found online do not have the dark on the low spots. i have look at 1000s of pics of these online. tell me if i missed something.

 

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fake.

Okay, why:
1) planchet is too round.
2) Strike too strong.
3) details too strong.
4) it is just too good to be real.

 

can you please provide better close ups of the tree. Thank you.

 

The lettres in the legend do not look like the ones on the real examples. They are a bit more boxy or squarish in appearance than on the original pieces. Unfortunately these have been faked for quite some time.

 

I have looked at some of my research literature, including Crosby's illustrations, and the lettering alignment matches one. I would still like to see better pictures if possible with a good close up of the "tree" and beaded ring.

 

I also don't like the surfaces... very indicative of a cast copy.

Have a weight on it?

 

good question LD. I'm wondering if the member can provide the proper weights and measure.

 

I know my small sized pine tree weighs close to 8 grams. I believe the large ones run around 12 grams. I would expect the oak trees to be the same. 22-26mm for the small ones and 27-31mm for the large ones.

 

According to the records I have, an oak tree shilling is 4.58 grams and the diameter is 25.12 mm. Now this is also not accurate, as there is a variance in known specimens.

 

It doesn't look even close to genuine to me - sorry.

 

You know as the saying goes Mark, pictures often times don't tell the true story. I am viewing the crosby illustrations and some old coin auction catalogues . Now the op coin probably is a cast counterfeit, but based on the representative illustrated/photos I have looked at, all the lettering seems to be aligned properly. I would like better photos to key the tree . Are you saying this does not match the dies for this issue? or the legend is incorrect type?

 

I didn't even look at illustrations to compare it to - it just has the wrong look to me. I'm not always right about such things, but would be shocked it it were genuine.

 

shocked is an understatement. The Oak tree shilling has 9 known obverse's and this one matches up almost exactly as I can see. Of course that doesn't make it genuine.

 

Not by a long shot.

 

Seriously, if you look at the expanded images by clicking on them, you will see that it has all the makings of a cast fake in pot metal. The surface looks like one of those Shekel of Tyre or Judean coins in the same metal - the surface is the giveaway.

If the OP had larger images it would be more clear to the eye.

 

I am sorry but from all the discussing and experience I have in Colonial's, this is an obvious fake without a doubt. The real thing would cost about 2-4G in that condition.

 

Ryan, what is the distinct die imperfection in masathusets which this "fake" or perhaps genuine shilling also has ?

 

Please elaborate as to how you came to possess this coin?

 

Sure thing. The letters (especially on the reverse) aren't placed right with the correct font either, as well as the material used to make it.

Here is Eduard's "real" example of one:



Now compare it to the one mentioned in this thread? Big difference, eh? Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to beat down on his coin or make him feel bad at all. Some of the counterfeits carry a premium and go for quite a bit. Of course, I am not 100% sure it is fake, but in my own opinion, it is counterfeit...

- Ryan -

 

Well, What specifically in the fonts in the op's coin from the one you provided, is the difference? I can tell you, that in the op's coin there is one distinct die imperfection which rarely is re-produced on counterfeits, as it is quite easily overlooked. Again, I'm not saying that it makes it a genuine specimen, although the weights and measures provided are within the known variances of survivors.