The Toning premium...

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by cplradar, Apr 15, 2021.

  1. cplradar

    cplradar Talmud Chuchum

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  3. potty dollar 1878

    potty dollar 1878 Well-Known Member

    What toning:yawn::yawn:I wouldn't even pay half that.
     
  4. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    If it had a "+" it would be a bargain at 1/3 off PCGS book. This one falls somewhere in the middle with this toning, I think. As such I don't think this "ask" is necessarily out of line.
     
  5. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Don't see toning. Any early issue in 67FH will not be cheap, and it has a CAC. I do not know the market for these, but assume the price is for the grade, FH, and CAC, plus its effectively a 1 year type, (1916 horribly rare).
     
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  6. William F

    William F Well-Known Member

    Actually that sounds about right for an example like that, Don't think the toning is raising the value any...
     
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  7. cplradar

    cplradar Talmud Chuchum

    not by Heritage auction results.
     
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  8. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    That exact one sold for about 8k at Heritage in 2019. Given that eBay has "free" shipping and no hidden fees and how the market has been the ask price really is perfectly reasonable
     
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  9. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    Came here to say that. $7,800 (including all fees except shipping) in Oct of '19. Seeing how ebay takes about 10% in fees, price seems right.
     
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  10. cplradar

    cplradar Talmud Chuchum

     
  11. cplradar

    cplradar Talmud Chuchum


    No it is grossly over priced over the market.
     
  12. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    No it’s not
     
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  13. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    @cplradar - you do realize that of all the coins you listed, only the following three could be used as a comparison. NGC and PCGS do not realize the same prices, so we can kick out the NGC's. A 1917 (P) is not the same coin as a 1917-D, so we'll get rid of those Denvers. A Type I is not a Type II, so we'll ditch the Type II's as well. CAC always realizes a premium, and it's typically a good chunk especially with coins in this value range, so anything not CAC'd is irrelevant for the comparison.

    Of those 3, one realized $4920 on 1/12/20, one realized $8400 on 6/9/19, and one realized $7800 on 10/24/19 (this is the coin in the OP).

    What does that tell us? The market was hotter for these in mid 2019 then they were in late 2019, and they cooled down even more in early 2020. It's now over a year since a similar coin has been available (can drive the price up as well; aka supply and demand).

    It also tells us that the average MARKET PRICE for a 1917 Type I SLQ FH in a PCGS CAC slab over the last couple of years was... (drumroll please) $7,040.

    Now the coin from the OP is on eBay for $9,249 or Best Offer. Let's ignore the Best Offer part, and say it sells for $9,249. Seller will pay (and I'm sure someone will correct me here) $924.90 in seller's fees (not including any discounts etc), leaving seller with a net sale price of $8,324.10. That's less than a 7% return on investment, assuming the seller is the buyer from 10/19. If he's not, he's probably making even less.

    You said -
    But it's not, as you yourself proved. The comparisons you gave were for the most part comparing apples to oranges, and those that were apples to apples showed the coin being offered at approximately a 33% premium over average (retail price before fees) over a year after the last one sold. Prices on desirable coins tend to increase over time. This coin is a 92/15 pop, and that number includes non-CAC'd coins, so it's even lower.

    Yes, this coin is priced on the higher side of the market, even for like coins, but a buyer who wants that top-pop but can't afford $50k will pay the $7-9K price tag (1/5) for a 2nd highest graded and CAC'd example when there are few available, and not readily available at that.

    You also have to remember, people that buy on eBay are not aware of places like HA/GC/Stack's/DLRC etc., and pay even higher premiums because they don't know how to research and find coins (and other products) at wholesale/discounted prices. (They also will buy counterfeit coins and never be the wiser, but that's a whole other topic.)

    Now think about all the coins that you have bought. Isn't there one or two (or more) that you paid more for because it really caught your eye, and you just had to have it? Did you grossly over pay because maybe it was 10, 15, or even 20% over what the last one sold for? No, you paid what you felt the value to be to you, creating your market value for that coin.

    Anything is worth whatever someone will pay for it.


     
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  14. cplradar

    cplradar Talmud Chuchum


    They are all MS67's, thank you, from top level graders.
     
  15. cplradar

    cplradar Talmud Chuchum

    you're idea of proof is different than my textbook definition that I learned from my work.
     
  16. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    Then I have a few NGC's I'd like to sell you, as long as I can use comparable PCGS +CAC realized prices.

    You really need to learn how market comparison pricing works.
     
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  17. cplradar

    cplradar Talmud Chuchum

    If your spending more than 2K for this coin, you are GROSSING overpaying and I can get a professional assessor off my spead dial and confirm it.
     
  18. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    Ask any appraiser if a 1 bedroom condo in Hoboken should be used as comps for an apartment on the upper west side of Manhattan overlooking Central Park.

    That's what you're doing with your comparisons.
     
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  19. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    It's official! EdWood has been reincarnated!

    Ed-Wood-Bean.jpg
     
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  20. cplradar

    cplradar Talmud Chuchum

    The apraisers I work with do cultural artifacts, and art... not real estate. BTW - he said - off the cuff, about 3200 TOPS. Granted, this particular professional usually works on Byzantine coinage and metal works.
     
  21. cplradar

    cplradar Talmud Chuchum


    boink..
     
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