NGC certifies the 10 Langbord 1933 Saints

People believe all sorts of things which turn out to be in error; that doesn't necessarily mean they are entitled to awards for damages.

Does anyone with legal training and the facts in this case have any input ? I lack both, so my opinions are little more than idle conjecture and have little weight. But I have a lot of curiosity !

What does the law say ?

This whole thing is very intriguing. Many coins have interesting stories; I personally feel these have the most compelling story of any US issue.

 

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Because the government sure would look silly if they were counterfeit.

 

I'm not sure I agree.

Using your logic, why not just "expose" one instead of ten?

 

Has anyone else noticed that the original link to the NGC release is now dead?

 

With Mr, Switt being generally considered the source for the 33's and it is generally accepted that 15 is the number he received from the mint how could the government have seized 10 and 10 more be surrendered for verification? I Also wonder if the families / heirs of the owners of the original seized / now destroyed coins will have any claim against the government or the Langbord family?

 

I don't think that 15 is the generally accepted number. I have in the back of my mind that, based on statements supposedly made by him, it was about 20-25.

 

This fits what I recall as well. Back in the 60's and 70's it was seemingly "understood" in the hobby that Swit had oiginally had 25 coins. When the investigations began in 1944 and Swit was named as the source of the 33 double eagles he admitted to the Feds that he had sold nine coins and who he had sold them to. The Feds went about rounding them up and in due time announced that they had now accounted for all nine of the 1933 double eagles and tht all of the coins were accounted for. (Of course they had said that back in the mid 1930's when they melted ALL of them down as well.) They had recovered eight coins and Farouk had the ninth and last piece.

Then Eliasberg asked if that meant he could keep his. No he couldn't and the Feds confiscated it announcing that they had now accounted for all ten of the nine coins. (Keep score boys and girls, this means they have now "accounted" for more coins than were struck).

Then the 10 Langbord coins turned up, and in the creation of the two recent books on the subject a 1980 dated photo of one turned up as well. The coin in the photo is not one of the two in the Smithsonian, it is not one of the ten Langbord coins, and it is not the Fenton/Farouk coin. It can't be one of the other nine confiscated pieces because they were all destroyed before 1980.

So that is nine destroyed, the Fenton/Farouk coin, the ten Langbord coins, and one photograph. That accounts for 21 coins. If the speculation from the 60's and 70's is correct that means there could be four more of them still out there.

 

1933 DOUBLE EAGLE UPDATE: Thought I would update this thread, since we could have a resolution this year.

After initially losing the court case, early last year (2015) the Langbords got a court to reverse the earlier decision. Now, the government is appealing:

http://www.coinweek.com/coins/news/...r-case-involving-langbord-1933-double-eagles/

http://www.coinworld.com/voices/steve-roach/2015/04/langbord_case_what.html

I think ultimately the Langbords WILL win (or settle and get most of the coins) as I don't think the govt can PROVE that the coins were stolen. There's enough evidence to suggest that they were just 'swapped' out for other Double Eagles.

 

I don't believe the U.S. Government gave any explicit or implicit guarantee that his would be THE ONLY 1933 Double Eagle. After the Farouk Fiasco, how could they be sure what other tangled webs were out there with other coins ?

 

The buyer of the 1933 Saint-Gaudens is likely a super-rich hedge fund manager or othter wealthy Wall Streeter. Regardless of their source of wealth (David Koch ?), I doubt any impairment in the value of the sole 1933 from release of a few more would result in a change in his (or her) lifestyle.

Also....while the government can prohibit the monetization of any 1933 Double Eagle (or other "illegal" coins), that doesn't necessarily imply that ownership of the coin is illegal. It would just mean you couldn't use it as legal tender for $20 -- not that anybody with all their marbles would ever want to !

 

Okay so I really gotta ask, what motivated you to reply to a thread and quote people when the last reply was 4 years ago which was you quoting posts from 7 years earlier. This has to be some sort of thread bump record

 

I was looking to set a thread bump record !! Did I get it ?

Actually, I've been thinking about the fate of the 1933's lately. No news since the U.S. SCOTUS turned them down. Not sure what if any legal appeals the Langbords have to get the coins back.

Hmmm....maybe an opportunity here, huh ?

 

It's essentially a done deal unfortunately from the courts. Shame they didn't get better from their expert but it is what it is now.

 

The courts aren't necessarily the final word....

 

If it was going to get voluntarily given back to them or Congress or someone was going to step in it almost certainly would have happened by now. 99+ percent of the time the courts are the final word as is almost certainly the case here

 

Reading this thread and seeing some of the posters names it's a shame some of them don't post anymore.

 

Stupid question !!!!! If the government knew of 10 other pieces. Why did they not retrieve them at any given time?

 

I'm guessing the the mints noon call in limits was only 10 per customer back then. That Langbord guy must of been first caller right

 

Your cool

 

Good point. I think i would of went that way also. If i was doing the thunken