NGC certifies the 10 Langbord 1933 Saints

Interesting, thanks for the link Mark.

 

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Perhaps... but the buyer certainly knew that there would be one heck of a fight by the claimants for the other known pieces. Guv'mint can say whatever they like, but the courts will rule as they will. Buyer could not possibly be so naive as to not know there was at least a possibility of the others becoming available.

Personally, as a juror, it would be very difficult to persuade me that the owner of the Fenton piece is due any recompense as a result of drop in market value should the others come on the market.

One buys rare coins, one takes a risk. It's possible someone could unearth a cache of other post-1928 $20s - reknowned for high mintage, low survival. A cache could come to light which multiplies the number of known examples and drops the value of existing ones.

It's interesting how much conjecture these particular coins bring up ! We've had several threads, and always lively banter. It's possible these are the most high profile coins ever. They are certainly legendary, with an story unmatched. Fascinating stuff !

 

So riddle me this... any guesses as to what the market value will be of these little puppies should they become available ?

Any conjecture as to the release / marketing strategy ? Surely it would be s-l-o-w time release... maybe over decades.

Can you imagine that one of these suckahs was a pocket piece ??? hoochie MAMA

Any of y'all standin' in line to be "the first kid on your block" to own a '33 Saint ? heh heh

 

A cache of "other post-1928 $20s - reknowned for high mintage, low survival" could surface, but there have been no similar representations made that they would be illegal to own. The wording used by the government at the time of the sale of the 1933 Saint is a far cry from the normal risk one assumes when he/she buys a coin with an unknown number of survivors.

 

Assuming that no more than another one or two surface. I would guess an average price/value of about $2,000,000 each.

I would also guess that they might be sold all at the same time, rather than over a long period of time. Strike (sell) while everyone is talking about them and the interest level is so high - it will never be higher. And since everyone already knows about the quantity being ten, anyway, keeping most of them off the market and selling just one or two now, might not help support the price.

Edited for spelling.

 

Personally, I don't think any of them should be legal to own, but since the king Farouk specimen was made legal, they all have to be in my opinion.

 

There is no actual proof that they left the mint illegally - why don't you think they should be legal to own?

 

There's a lot of truth in that.

We'll see. Personally, I'll be surprised if the owner(s) of the one now "out there" receive any damage remedy.

They knew there were others. They knew their status was hotly contested. They knew it was entirely possible some - or all - of the others could come on the market.

They knew all these things at time of sale - or should have. When someone lays down $7 million, the burden of Due Diligence is on them IMO.

We'll see. Just like the coins themselves, the courts can go several different directions. Who knows ?

Amazing how much drama these coins bring up ! And all the discussion is good for the hobby, even though the debaters don't have a dog in the hunt (or at least I don't ! )

It reminds me of the whole college football "Who's #1" debate. The fact that people are talking is free advertising - it's good for the sport in a way. Same here... some of the interest goes outside of collecting circles. I think it's good for the hobby.

 

Great thread. Mark's $2 million average sounds reasonable but I wonder what the price spread will be between the different grades -- MS66 versus Improperly Cleaned, Unc. Details. $3 million to $1.5 million?

 

Even if he and others suspected such, the owner of the Fenton coin didn't KNOW there were others out there at the time of that transaction - the Langbord coins surfaced AFTER that.

 

Well, they weren't released, so they must have left the mint illegally. To me, if a coin left the mint illegally, it should be illegal, even if a king owned it, but since that one is legal, it is only fair that they all be made legal.

 

Numismatic experts who have consulted archives and are familiar with mint/cashier policies of those times have stated that it was entirely possible that Izzy Swift exchanged gold for gold in a legal manner. And there is no proof that he or anyone else stole the coins. The fact that they weren't intentionally publicly released does not necessarily mean they left the mint illegally.

 

I wasn't aware of that, but some of my information is outdated so that's not surprising. Thanks for information.

Weren't others previously seized? If so, the owners should be compensated if the coins were removed legally.

 

Yes, I knew he knew that there were others, BUT, my main question was basically, wasn't he assured that this will be the only one that will ever be legal to own.

 

Yes, others were seized decades ago.

The bottom line is that the coins might have left the mint legally, with or without some shenanigans being involved. If the case isn't settled - I think it will be - the loser will almost certainly be the party upon whom the burden of proof is effectively placed. If the Langbord side has to prove the coins were obtained from the mint legally, they wont be able to do so. And if the government has to prove the coins left the mint illegally, they wont be able to so so.

 

You "knew" incorrectly. At the time the coin was auctioned, the buyer didn't know there were others, even though the numismatic community strongly suspected that there were others. And there was no way to know when or if they would surface.

 

Okay, so when did these 33's that just got graded, surface? If this one was the only one at that time, then what was up with these?

 

I'm thinking there's a good possiblity the family really had more than 10 of these 1933 Saints, maybe 20, maybe 100?? And they just made these 10 public to test the waters of how the government would react and whether they could win the current court battle. Seems odd they would risk all they owned in this manner by bringing them public. Just my wild guesses and imagination, I haven't been following the details of the case.

 

One would think their house would be searched by all sorts of government officials to find more of them, right after they surfaced. (They would have to have a really good hiding place!)

 

Try reading this article. http://numismaticnews.net/article/Final_papers_filed_in_1933_$20_court_fight/