Won the 1921-D Walking Liberty.. Deeper Analysis

Ah this is getting a bit ridiculous now.

You never never never never never never acknowledge that I'm right.

It's always the other guy who is right whether he really is or not.
I feel like my intelligence is personally undermined all the time from you. I really do. There are some members here that give rebuttals in such a nice way but with you it always feels personal. And there's a bias that is starting to come from you, Doug. I just feel it. I don't know what you have wrong with me as a person but I just don't get it.

I'm going to take a break from this forum because of people like you. I tried prefacing in the past with "all due respect" but this is becoming personal now and I don't like it one bit.

What if I send this to NGC and it comes back VG or F? Then will Doug and others eat their words? It just gives me more personal happiness when the coin comes back and it turns out to not be what some of these forum people low rate it out to be. Situations where people on the forum have low rated a purchase of mine and it turned out to be nothing like what they said have happened before here. Sometimes yes I admit I was a bit too ambitious at times with purchases but other times some of you were just too overly caustic with me as well.

Anyway, thanks everyone, I'm going to need a day or two off from this. I'll be at the show in Van Nuys tomorrow and hopefully Monday or late Sunday night I'll be back with a report if i'm still even welcome here, lol.

Edit: And I can only imagine you're going to tell me you're just trying to help right? Doug, this is not helping when time after time it's always the other guy is right who either has more experience/seniority over me. It's just not fair and makes me feel very excluded at times.

 

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Seems to me that you are just a hot headed, loose fingered newbie, on steroids. (I've been there, and done that)
These people are trying to help you, and all you are doing is rejecting their help, and believe it or not they are being very nice to you. Here is a tip to you, LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE MORE KNOWLEDGE THAN YOU! Right now you sound like a know-it-all. Hate to break it to you, but you don't know it all. Go ahead and take a break, because you think "people like Doug" are big meanies. Just know, that he knows more than you now, and if your attitude towards people helping you doesn't change, he will know more than you, FOREVER.

 

BNB you're taking it way to personal. Both Doug and Mike have a point, if you are strictly going by ANA standards a coin to be VG must have full rims, period, nothing else matters. So it all depends on what grading standards you are using. ANYONE going strictly by ANA standards will tell you that coin is a G6. Imo the TPG standards aren't as strict as the ANA, so I would expect the coin to come back VG.

Do you plan on getting it graded?

 

Hot headed loose fingered newbie?

Can you get anymore insulting that that?

Just because you have 5,000 posts and are probably very senior to this forum does not give you the right to just throw me under the bus like that. I'm sorry but it doesn't.

 

I do plan on it but if Great Southern Coin is misrepresenting their "although subjective" grade on this and it turns out to be a few notches down then we have a big problem. But out of the 18,000+ more or less happy customers(many which are dealers as well) I really find it hard that this coin was misrepresented.

But hey, I could be dead wrong and I'll be willing to accept that, as well as a return to the company.

 

Believe it or not, I'm helping you. I was the same way. I don't take anything personal anymore, unlike what you are doing you.

Some people say your coin is G-6 and you start crying because you know more than them. Seriously? How long have you been collecting? What is sad is you've probably been collecting longer than I have, and yet you don't know how to listen to people, and learn from others. I guess that lesson will come a little bit later on then.

 

Let me make it clear to everyone:

I do not doubt that Doug doesn't know his stuff. I bet he knows 20x more than I do when it comes to coins. I fairly will recognize that.

But it's how he goes about his critiques with my coins that sting.

I've rarely seen him say a good thing about one of my coins, if he has, I stand corrected.

So one with a rational mind can only draw the conclusion that there's gotta be something personal here. It just doesn't seem like it's nice kind criticism mainly because it's the same answer most the time.

I just have really fallen in love with coins and when I drop $350 on a coin that I feel I've done so much D.D on and someone easily dismisses it as a "G-6" I just feel that can't be any more of an ultimate slap in the face to my trying efforts.

 

Here's an example of your "help"
Don't take this personally, this is just for examples sake.

You're a insult removed.

Okay, I was just trying to help. Maybe I didn't change a few words to make that horrible statement sound nicey nice but I still did it in the name of helping you out.

See how lame that guise is?

This is what people do all the time. They insult people left and right all under the guise of "help". Look, if you just want to say that we don't know what the "bleep" we are doing, just say it and stop going around the bush.

I listen to a lot of members on this forum and there's no need for you to question that. It's just that I really am taking an experienced collector like Doug and matching him up against Great Southern Coin here. I am siding with GSC because I purchased from them and that's where my loyalty will lye. Nothing against Doug it's just that I made the purchase from them not him, if I purchased this coin from him I'd be stuck to the pc screen like glue listening to him.

If GSC did misrepresent their coin(which some will say it's okay because grading is subjective), I will not give them the leniency and let them have the satisfaction of letting me hold onto their mis-represented coin. I speak up for injustices and believe me, if they did an injustice to me by making me believe I bought a coin that was "F" I will let them know. The coin in my limited experience eyes passed as an "F", but I trusted the company more than my own instinct and some may say that was wrong, I am just hoping that I will be another one of their 18,000 happy customers who feel that the grades were fairly represented. Thank you.

Edit: I did not personally insult Any member. This was an example being used to suggest a point I was making Cave Troll, this is not right and I did not deserve an infraction for my point.

 

I looked at this coin based on the ANA grading standards before I read though this thread...and I hate to say it but this coin will not make VG. It simply won't. It does not have full rims and that is needed for the coin to go VG8. If you look in the ANA Grading Standards Book (on page 237 of the 6th edition) under VG-8...the second to last sentence for the obverse is: "Rim is complete." The final sentence for the reverse is: "Rim is full and all letters are clear." If you look on your reverse...you lose the rim completely 2:30 to 5:00 and it is very weak around 9:00. That means this coin is too worn to make VG. I believe this is a solid G-6.

I hate to disappoint you...but those are the facts. It is a very nice coin...but it's not a VG nor is it even close to an F.

 

I've only been a member since February 2009, and people hated me! Little by little, I started learning these lessons people were trying to teach me, as I did this, my posts started to have more substance to them, and more knowledge. Before I knew it, I turned into a teacher, and I was teaching new collectors. I still have a lot to learn, and I have came a long way.
You need to sit down and and READ posts, and think a few minutes before you respond my friend, this will help you in the long run.
If you feel you cannot handle this, or if you feel your feelings got hurt, then by all means, take a break, re-coop, and come back and start reading/posting/learning again.

 

Well hey listen, if you, Doug, ANA Grading Standards, Illini, tmoneyeagle, and others are right, GSC just did me a big disservice and they're soon going to know about it. That does NOT make me happy one bit if this is the case so please, excuse me for being a little upset and emotional right now.

 

GSC doctors photos, cleans coins, and misgrades and states false information all the time on their auctions. We look out for each other here, and we try to tell members to stay away from GSC. If you want to learn by doing, keep buying from them. You'll have a few bad experiences I can almost guarantee that.
What we are trying to tell you is this; Your coin has a better chance to be a G-6 than a VG-8. It doesn't have complete rims, and I believe that is a qualification for VG-8, and yet you are calling it a VG-8 due to detail you see on the coins. If it doesn't meet a qualification of a certain grade, than why should it grade at that grade? Doesn't make sense to me, what you are claiming. Hey if it grades VG-8 good for you, we will still have our opinions, going by the ANA, about how it is a G-6, and you can sell it off as a VG-8, to somebody who doesn't know better, or lets the companies do all the grading.

 

My Message to Great Southern Coin just now:

"I just won this coin and there is a lot confusion/controversy coming about after I showed this coin to forum friends on CoinTalk.com. A lot of people do not believe(According to ANA standards) that this is actually a "F" graded coin and believe it is "G-6" at best. I was hoping that I was getting the coin represented to me fairly and accurately(even though you say grading is subjective, it is) But I'd hope that you guys would hit the mark very closely. If they turn out to be right and I will send this in for grading, I will not be a happy camper., I spoke with Richard and he said I have a guarantee that I have to be happy with the coin. I will not be if this coin is what these people on CoinTalk are making it to be. They can be wrong however. So, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter. Thank you"

 

I hear you but what really throws me off is all this positive feedback they have from dealers and customers. I mean wow, 18,000+ greens. Don't you think more people would be voicing their opinions about the doctoring/cleaning/etc that GSC does to their coins that just a few?

 

Okay that is better, calming down. I always had to say something on my mind, I calmed down, then I felt like crap after what I did. Every time, but I persistently did it. You just have to learn not to take things so personal. The reason I even care, or want to help you, and teach you a lesson right here, is because I see so much of you in me. Please don't take any of this offensive, that is not any of our intents.

 

A lot of people that buy from them are brand new to collecting and think "Oh hey, here is a nice one"
Once they get it, they keep it raw for a while. Then they learn more about grading and feel they need to get it graded because GSC said it was MS62++ and it was a PQ gem, and yet these people get so confused why their coin comes back at AU55 or Body Bagged, or PCGS Genuine, that is when a lot of them learn their first lesson, never to buy from GSC.

 

Some places do what we in the buisness call "throwing it at the wall".

They throw a bunch of junk/misgraded stuff out there and see what sticks to the wall. By sticks to the wall I mean that people dont return. This is very very common on EBay and just one of the many things that you have to watch out for.

When people do return it they happily give them their money with a big smile and a "sorry about that" and positive feedbacks are exchanged. The item is then relisted for the next fish. This isn't a new thing.... been going longer then the internet has been around for sure. The internet has just given people a new medium to do this kind of stuff.

 

I know but still, 18,000+. Come on man, that's a lot of happy customers. They can't all be new.

 

I fully understand your frustration...I really do. You have a right to be upset. But, it's not as bad as you might imagine. Like I said, I feel this coin is a G6. So, I went over to the Heritage Coins auction website and looked at what 1921-D Walker's graded at G6 went for...it's between $300-$360. So, you didn't way over pay. Then, I looked at the F12s...and they are selling in the $600-$700+ range for problem free examples. So...you didn't do that bad. I know you feel lied to...but you paid a fair price for your coin.

I highly recommend you join Heritage and look at prices there before you purchase coins on eBay or elsewhere. It is an excellent place to find the current prices for things and it's free. http://coins.ha.com/.

I also highly recommend buying the ANA grading guide before continuing to purchase coins. It's inexpensive and a very useful resource: http://www.amazon.com/Official-Amer...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255801920&sr=8-1

 

I'm a part of HA.com and am a frequent buyer of their coins.

I will be buying this book now after hearing all the reference points from it.

Thanks

PS: For those who say I don't listen, I bought almost every book rec. you all gave me(Including the ANA Grade Guide just now), read them, and listen as best I can to all of your advice with the occasional picking and choosing of certain advice my mind wants to filter out.