Fake? Or Tampered with? You decide.

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by BNB Analytics, Oct 14, 2009.

  1. BNB Analytics

    BNB Analytics New Member

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  3. fishaddicit

    fishaddicit Senior Member

    LOL, that must be the symbol for "COPY" :D
     
  4. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    What makes you think it might be ?
     
  5. BNB Analytics

    BNB Analytics New Member

    That chinese counterstamp.

    Ooooweyy is that an ugly turn off to me.
     
  6. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Can't say as I blame you, don't like chop marks myself. But an ugly turn-off is not reason to think a coin is fake. Now realize, I am not saying that the mark proves it genuine or fake either.

    Is there anything else that makes you think the coin might be fake ? And yes, that does include the mark. And if it is the mark - then why ?
     
  7. BNB Analytics

    BNB Analytics New Member

    Not to sound racist(I'm dating a gorgeous asian girl), but it's chinese and it makes me associate with all the chinese fakes that come out of china.
     
  8. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Fair enough, but that indicates to me that you don't know what chop marks are. Chop marks are a mark punched into the surface of a coin by a Chinese merchant to indicate to himself and others that he has verified the authenticity and silver content of the coin bearing the mark. These marks were used for centuries.

    Now, knowing that, does it change your perspective ?
     
  9. andrew289

    andrew289 Senior Analyst

    That is a beautiful coin.
     
  10. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

    Chop marks were punched in. That mark appears to engraved. You know those tools one uses to write ones name on metal items ? That mark looks like that sort of engraving.

    Chop marks tend to have thick lines. Those are very thin.

    Also... the fields aren't flat; they seem convex.
     
  11. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

    Looks fake to me , never saw a Walker wear like that , and I've seen a bunch , even the chopmark looks fishy . The eagle on the reverse's wear looks off due to the extreme height from the head down to the leg .
    rzage
     
  12. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    The good and the bad, don't think a fake would include a chop mark as many would find it a "problem". However, if a person likes the history associated with chop marks and a desire for a rare coin, here is a good combination. Looks Ok, I think the distortion is from the lens/camera angle.

    Jim
     
  13. coleguy

    coleguy Coin Collector

    I don't see any reason to believe the coin is fake. I'm suspicious of the "chopmark", though, as most I've seen were punched in with a die punch that leaves a definite mark around the design of the punch, which I'm not seeing.
    Guy~
     
  14. AEOC Numismatis

    AEOC Numismatis Junior Member

    It looks tampered with for sure. Maybe a symbol of some sort?
     
  15. LostDutchman

    LostDutchman Under Staffed & Overly Motivated Supporter

    I agree, I think the pics make the coin look funky... but It doesn't look counterfiet to me. The mark... could be anything...
     
  16. BNB Analytics

    BNB Analytics New Member

    Yes it does.
     
  17. rdwarrior

    rdwarrior Junior Member

    The lines of the flag under the outstretched arm looks like something is not right there, judging from the rest of the wear those lines should be gone or nearly gone, maybe they have been re-etched to make the coin look better?
     
  18. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    BNB I think your instincts were working, learn to trust them. Even if you don't know why, when they perk up and say something is wrong - then walk away from the coin.

    The purpose of my questions was to try and teach you something, a couple things actually. The first I mentioned above. The second is about chopmarks.

    Gotta run right now, but I will continue this later.
     
  19. abe

    abe LaminatedLincolnCollector

    Without mention of chop marks, this coin is very odd. I've seen very many odd coins in my day that are very real. This could be one, or it could be the ole fakarooney.
     
  20. BNB Analytics

    BNB Analytics New Member

    Thanks Doug, you're always a good help.
    That's why I like Cointalk first above the rest.
     
  21. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    OK - back to the chop mark. If one were to check the rarity census for chop marked coins what you would find is that it is extremely rare to find a chop mark on any coin dated after 1900. The simple fact is, it just wasn't done anymore by that time. As an example, using the Frank Rose rarity scale, there are 2-5 examples known of a 1914-S Barber half dollar and there is no US coin known, or any other coin for that matter, dated after 1914. And very dang few of them dated after 1900.

    So, it is extremly unlikely, almost a certainty even, that the mark on that coin is definitely not a chop mark. But rather a mark put there purposely with the intent to deceive.

    That alone is enough to bring a coin like this one, which is enough of a rarity of its own accord, under suspicion. If nothing else, it is a damaged coin. And why would anyone place such a mark on a coin that is considered to be scarce and of value if the coin were genuine ?

    That said, the degree of wear on the coin makes it difficult to distinguish if the coin is genuine or not. But given the above, I rather suspect it is not.

    So I guess the lesson here is that it is not always enough to know the different aspects of the coin itself in order to determine if it is genuine or not. Sometimes you even need to know things that would seem to be far removed from having anything to do with a US coin of this date. So never hesitate to learn as much as you can about the subject of numismatics. Even if it has nothing to do with the coins you collect. For at some point in time you might just find that knowledge to be invaluable when you least expect it.
     
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