PCGS overgrading coins?

Do you have any pictures ?
rzage

 

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A couple tiny black carbon spots (not porosity) on a Good Lincoln is not going to keep it out of a slab. You're going to have to have a noticeable corrosion pit for that. Lower grade coins are expected to have more issues like that.

 

Rzage,

I don't know if I'm just too picky or if what I am seeing is there. My thinking is that if it predates the "genuine" holder era, then PCGS would have simply rejected the coin for encapsulation because of environmental damage, if it really is porosity. If it was during the "genuine" slab era, I would have seen it there. I thought, at first, maybe the G-6 is a net grade, but this coin really is in between Good and Very Good based on Photograde and ANA, so I am now thinking it is not a net grade.

I tried doing scans and photos last night and just could not focus either enough to post here for any visual guidance.

Thank you for your thoughts!

 

Conder101,

Carbon spots sound like a very likely possibility here. With the piece still in the slab, I inspected the coin under 10X and probably mistook the black carbon spots for pitting, especially amid the microscopic graininess of the planchet.

Thanks for the insight.

 

Coinman I know this wasn't what you asked , but did you check your MM a lot of S/ Horizontal S MM go unnoticed , and will raise the price a few dollars , plus it's a neat variety .
rzage

 

Great point! Yes, I did check earlier and absolutely no evidence of the horizontal "S."

 

I agree with what Art said. Many copper planchets of that time were crudely made. The weak details are pretty consistent too. Remember, these things were made on screw presses, not 5,000 ton powered machines. It's amazing they were able to get any detail at all.
Guy~

 

Coleguy,

Exactly....I spent about an hour today looking up planchet quality issues and such and am seeing that weak strikes are indeed common and planchets are not always the best.

Everyone's feedback is making me think PCGS simply would have rejected this piece if it was a "problem" coin. It's a nice coin overall; good brown color and such, I guess the several tiny carbon spots and a couple brown-reddish marks had me thinking twice this morning :goofer:

 

Carbon spots can be a problem. Thats why I've never sent in the piece thats my avatar, because of that unfortunate spot at 9:00.
Guy~

 

I was going to say the same thing. Only I would add that I've heard they have been lenient and let many, older problem coins get slabbed over the years. Not just coppers.

There isn't much that's 100 to 200 years old and still around that hasn't been cleaned at some point in it's existence. Originals are few and far between. Especially when that was considered an acceptable practice for years. What dealer wouldn't have cleaned their coins to make them look better during all that time?

If they got more strict, not much of anything would be slabbed.

 

I was in the market for a Liberty Cap half cent in VF/XF.
Since it was for my type set I was looking for the least expensive date/variety.
The 1795's looked to be the right coins.
I went to a nationally known dealer and he brought out 12-15 raw 1795's.
They really looked good ... until you looked at the reverse.
On all of them the words HALF/CENT were essentially non-existent.
If I hadn't known I was looking at half cents I wouldn't have know what the denomination was.
BUT many of them would have graded XF.
Apparently strike is not NEARLY as important on early coins.

At the Philly show I visited him again and he showed me a raw 1795 Lettered Edge half cent, a different variety than I was looking at before.
Fully struck on both sides.
I bought it with the provision that it slabs at least VF-35.
It's now in to PCGS for grading.

 

In the early years at the mint they were still learning how to properly harden the dies. They had a real problem in those years with the central body of the die not being properly hardened and compressing under the pounding of use. When the die body compressed the central face of the die sank and the face of the die became slightly concave. In that circumstance the planchet metal was unable to fill the central part of the reverse.

 

Thanks.
Nice response.
Something I didn't know and I don't recall ever hearing about.

 

Thanks for the reply. Here's the best photo (the seller's eBay photo) I can manage to get of my 1909-S. I thought it was just discoloration at first but I'm unsure now....

The photo is still grainy but at the very least you can get a sense of what I am discussing. Of note, in my opinion, is the reddish-brown area just left of Lincoln.

 

As long as that spot isn't growing , It hardly detracts from the beauty of your avatar coin at all , nice piece .
rzage:thumb:

 

I think this 1797 is under graded.looks more like EF-40.to me it is great looking coin!!!
that is my 2 cents