1909 s v.d.b.

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by LostDutchman, Sep 28, 2009.

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  1. abe

    abe LaminatedLincolnCollector

    Plain as day...
     
    abe, Sep 29, 2009
    #21 + Quote Reply
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  3. johnny54321

    johnny54321 aspiring numismatist

    Doug. I see the parallel lines you are talking about on the rim. I am no where near as experienced as you, but I attributed those lines to a very mild woodgrain effect. There is a rather large but mild parallel pattern on the fields and devices on the reverse at about a 150 degree angle through "ONE CENT". I have several lincolns that have a similar looking parallel line pattern, but no actual scratches. I do see several very light lines on the obverse that I would classify as "grazes" as oposed to actual scratches.

    Lost Dutchman: Can you comment on the "scratches"? You have the coin in hand and can probably make a much better diagnosis than us going off of one picture.:thumb:
     
    johnny54321, Sep 30, 2009
    #22 + Quote Reply
  4. Boss

    Boss Coin Hoarder

    No offense Doug, but this kind of overcritiqing a coin can be dangerous. Lost Dutchman is a big boy and experienced, so I doubt you would sway him at all. But you personally influenced me to see my S VDB in a light such as this. I actualy took that coin to Angle Dee's (whom PCGS directed me to get an opinion). The owner said the coin would grade fine and the hairlines we're not signifcant. I let that critique bug me and I tried to fix it with Dellars Darkener (which I didn't know you had to dilute and mix well). It spotted up and essentially screwed up the coin. I don't blame you for ultimately my choices. Others might have ignored your criticism and moved on, and I didn't. That being said, you definetly influenced me. Lost Dutchman, posts a great coin and most or us think it looks pretty nice. Sorry, but I had to say this because it's kind of personal to me and I think looking for the slightest imperfections when someone posts a coin is not what most are looking for, but I could be wrong.
     
    Boss, Sep 30, 2009
    #23 + Quote Reply
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Boss I am not trying to sway anybody, least of all Matt. He knows what he bought and he doesn't need my help, or my opinion.

    Any time I make comments on a coin like this I do it for one reason - to point things out and help the people who don't have the expertise that Matt has. It's a learning process, just that simple.

    If you can learn to see the little things, yes little things - I did after all say numerous times that I thought NGC would grade this coin a 64, which is what pretty much all of the others said as well, so I am in no way knocking the coin - but if folks can learn to see the little things then they will never have a problem seeing the big things.

    How many times have any of you, all of you even, seen people come to this site, as well as others like it, all proud and happy of the new coin they bought ? Only to find out that they missed something, something that matters. And something that means that they paid way too much. How many times ? A thousand - ten ? Well, that's what these posts of mine like this are for. To try and help teach those people how to see the same things I see.

    And I never would have made another comment other than my first except for the fact that there were those saying that they could not see what I was seeing. So I was trying to show them.

    As I said Boss, it's part of a learning experience. It's not me being overly critical.

    And as for me influencing people - God I hope so. I'd hate to think that all of the thousands of hours that I have spent were for nothing.

    And when you say - " and I think looking for the slightest imperfections when someone posts a coin is not what most are looking for ...." - yeah I know that.

    But I'm not gonna be another one of those who just says - oh nice coin, that's a beauty, way to go ! Sorry, but while those type of comments are very nice to hear and people love hearing them, people don't learn anything from those comments. All that does is stoke their egos.

    Now there's nothing wrong with stoking somebody's ego, and I do my share of it when I think it's appropriate. But I'd rather be remembered as the guy who tried to help others, teach others, show them their mistakes, and even have people be a little PO'd about it now n then - that I would be just another guy who said - wow, nice coin !
     
    GDJMSP, Sep 30, 2009
    #24 + Quote Reply
  6. Just Carl

    Just Carl Numismatist

    I didn't see any mention of how much was paid for that. Just nosey but how much was that coin? Regardless of how it is graded, I sure like to have that one.
     
    Just Carl, Sep 30, 2009
    #25 + Quote Reply
  7. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    And, I for one, appreciate what he is doing. I am trying to learn as much as I can from the man. Saying that does not mean that I always agree with what he is saying, but I am trying to learn why he says it.
     
    rlm's cents, Sep 30, 2009
    #26 + Quote Reply
  8. LostDutchman

    LostDutchman Under Staffed & Overly Motivated Supporter

    First of all I have no problem with Doug or anyone critiquing anything I post. That's what we are all here for right? It is appreciated by myself and I'm sure others.

    In hand I see the light roughness around the rim but dont see any noticeable scratches across the coin. The coin does have a mild wood grain effect. Sometimes pictures seem to highlight something that in hand in easily overlooked or not seen at all. It is my opinion having the coin in hand that this might be what is going on. I see what Doug sees and is commenting on in the pictures but under a 10x loupe I'm not seeing it on the coin. I'm sure it's there... but I think the picture and the lighting have really made something that I can't see in hand stand out. Not out of the ordinary.
     
    LostDutchman, Sep 30, 2009
    #27 + Quote Reply
  9. jello

    jello Not Expert★NormL®


    Well said Dutch!!!
     
    jello, Sep 30, 2009
    #28 + Quote Reply
  10. Boss

    Boss Coin Hoarder

    I was more sensitive and less now, but perhaps too sensitive still. If this was my coin a year ago- I would have spun out by this statement from someone with Doug's status here:

    I guess that's the point I was making, but that's just me and obviously others feel differently. No worries. Just my opinions. You still know more than me Doug. Won't debate that at all.:hug:
     
    Boss, Oct 1, 2009
    #29 + Quote Reply
  11. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    God I wish I could actually sit down with people, look at a coin together and explain what it is I'm trying to say sometimes. It would be sooooooooo much easier. If I could ever get all of you in the same room with a bunch of coins just like those that we all discuss here - Boy Howdy what would that be like !

    But I can't, so I have to try and do it with words, and pictures. And that's a lousy way to try and explain the subtle differences about coins. Yeah I know, what I'm trying to say doesn't always come across the way I'd like it to. So I have to try and use words and descriptions to get across my point. Now sometimes those words may sound too exptreme I guess, or exagerated. But I don't know how else to do it. With words, you try to draw picture in people's minds. But it's easy for different people to interpret those words differently so that the same meaning does not always come across.

    So for when that happens - sorry gang. I'm just doing the best I can with the tools I have.
     
    GDJMSP, Oct 1, 2009
    #30 + Quote Reply
  12. abe

    abe LaminatedLincolnCollector

    I know exactly what your talking about. I don't know how many times I've seen a problem on a coin and reached for a magnifyer or loupe, and poof,
    the problem was gone. Sometimes the naked eye lets us see more clearly.
     
    abe, Oct 1, 2009
    #31 + Quote Reply
  13. texmech

    texmech Wanna be coin collector

    For the most part I always see very civilized critiques here. I saw one thread where some guy (Jazz something or other) got his feelings hurt and the conversation went in to the ditch. Then it turned into a debate about credibility. It was like kids going at it. After all, it's good to hear the banter going back and forth and certain points addressed. It's good for knuckle dragging coin enthusiast like me.
     
    texmech, Oct 1, 2009
    #32 + Quote Reply
  14. johnny54321

    johnny54321 aspiring numismatist

    The way I see it is that Doug is to Cointalk what Simon Cowell is to American Idol. Just interchange "coins" with "singing" and "cointalk" with "American Idol".

    He occasionally gets booed at by the crowd, and participants dread it when he is about to comment on their "singing". He bluntly calls it like he sees it, with no softening of the blows. However, at the end of the day, his opinion is one of the most respected, and "American Idol" wouldn't be "American Idol" without him. Everyone needs a bad cop.:kewl:

    Ok, weird analogy, but that's basically how I see it.
     
    johnny54321, Oct 1, 2009
    #33 + Quote Reply
  15. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    What kind of hat does Simon Cowell wear?

    Halloween is coming, remember the "Imitate Doug's Avatar Hat" event from last year :)

    Jim
     
    desertgem, Oct 2, 2009
    #34 + Quote Reply
  16. jello

    jello Not Expert★NormL®

    To me having the coin in hand I could add a better reply.
    sometime a photo hinder you view.
     
    jello, Oct 2, 2009
    #35 + Quote Reply
  17. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    You had to bring that up now didn't ya :rolleyes:
     
    GDJMSP, Oct 2, 2009
    #36 + Quote Reply
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