So I bought some Chinese replicas off ebay....

Great idea, except fr one thing. The only person who has done anything illegal in this situation is Vess1. The chinese counterfeiter hasn't done anything wrong. Making fake US coins isn't illegal in China. The seller has done anything illegl either, either by selling them or but shipping them to the US. But Vess1 HAS violated the HPA by importing unmarked copies.

Or the other obvious reason, the counterfeiter has more than one D mint reverse die.

 

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I think that Vess bought them with the understanding that they were replicas and as such should be stamped "replica". When he recieved them there was no "replica" stamped on the coin. How does this put him in violation?

 

The only one I know of who INTENTIONALLY broke the rules was the Chinese. Here are the eBay rules word for word;

Please tell me how vess1 would expect anything except a legal coin.

 

Book'em Dano......

 

Great information Vess, but maybe it's too great. I'm sure that the Chinese counterfeiters will also read this thread and will take notes of how to improve their techniques!!! Scary stuff, but in trying to help fellow collectors, it is possible that you may also be helping the problem. Just a shame that the government doesn't crack down on eBay for allowing all of this counterfeit money to be distributed with ease.

 

I really don't see how the OP could be "helping" the problem. Seems to me he's exposing one......

 

They may or may not read this thread. I'm not willing to give them that much credit to be honest.

I did not disclose all the problems but several. I did contemplate your concern.

At first, I was somewhat hesitant to disclose much at all. But the thing is, there's nothing stopping them from buying a real one and checking it against what they are making. It's that simple. Frankly, I don't understand why they weren't better. It would indicate to me that it still must not be that easy to create a perfect copy.
For example the glossiness and gold hue that many had. If they could avoid that, why aren't they? Some of the problems are only visible under magnification and you have to look for them. In the end, I decided my post likely would not have much of an impact on what they're doing. The reality is that info and examples of the real thing are readily available. I mean, how else would they have gotten them this close?

Conder, the sellers misrepresented what they were selling. The auction showed a replica stamp on them and they said that they had them in the auction description. I didn't ask them to leave it off. I didn't manufacture them. I don't have anything that could manufacture them and I have no intent to defraud anybody with one. This was strictly a learning experience and I have a lot of documentation proving that. If I was trying to get away with anything, I would not have posted an article on them.

I was the unsuspecting recipient. I actually wish they would have been sent stamped. But it is obvious that many people must be importing these to sell them as real, since they left the stamp off with no questions asked. They just assume that is the intent now I suppose.

Or maybe they just don't want to ruin their work and don't care what happens with what they send out? That's probably the more likely scenario.

 

Book'em Dano....:smile

 

I do not fear that listing flaws in this forum will make a difference. I would already guess that they are experts at what they are doing. I would assume that they already know all these flaws you have pointed out and do not care to waste the time, effort, or money to make them anymore spot on. Why fix them more when they are getting the job done well enough from their prospective.

 

Vess,
I had to nominate your post as I find it amazingly good. We have your thread here on these fake buffalos and Matt's thread on the counterfeit gold coins. education galore!! This forum is simply the best on the planet, period!! good for you!!

 

Vess, Don't get me wrong, I am not criticizing you, or what you did, just pointing out that that was the only "technical" violation of the law that was occurring. And personally I don't blame you for it, you didn't ask for them to be sent that way. It's just that the other member was wishing they would come in and hit someone with a heavy prison sentence, and I was pointing out that if they did the ONLY person they could charge with anything would be the person who is trying to help us out. And unfortunately the "I didn't ask him to send them to send them unmarked." defense would be a great big one for the real crooks importing them would hide behind.

There is one other point though. You say that they were maked "replica" in the auction, and that you expected to arrive marked "replica". But even if you had ASKED for them to put the replica stamp on them and ship them that way they would STILL have been illegal for you to import. The law requires the word "COPY", "Replica" doesn't cut it. They are still illegal to sell or import. The law is very explicit It must be COPY in san serif letters a minimum of 2 mm high or not less than 1/6th the diameter whichever is lesser, and a minimum of 6 mm long or 1/2 the diameter of the reproduction numismatic item whichever is lesser. It must be incuse into the surface 3/10th of a mm or 1/2 the thickness of the item whichever is lesser.

 

Have we checked the composition of there pieces???

Are they magnetic???

Are they nickel???

How does it ring when dropped on the table compared to an original buffalo nickel????

 

To tell you the truth, I completely forgot about the magnet test. I'll check them when I get home.

I did try the ring test and dropped a couple. They feel and sound like a real one when dropped on a table. I would like to know what they're made of. Do you know of any tests to try for nickel?

Nickels have been the same composition since their inception. It's entirely possible that they could be melting down real Jefferson nickels and making these from them. It probably wouldn't be worth it to melt real buffalo nickels and then sell and ship them from China for $2.00 a piece.

But what's strange is that the diameters were significantly larger than real ones but most were underweight up to right on. So it's very possible they're not nickel at all.

 

Are the chinese making copies of this years coins being released and if not why?

 

This is a test kit that people who are allergic to nickel use to see if something has nickel in it... I suspect that this might give us some sort of idea.

http://athenaallergy.com/cart/index.php/nickel-alert.html

 

Actually when I was in China a few years ago I saw fakes everywhere in markets etc. But don't think they are faking just foreign coins, they are also faking domestic Chinese coins and the government there does take exception to that.

They have found for the most part it is far more profitable and less likely to run afoul of the government to fake someone else's coins. Coins are not the only thing, clothing, watches, purses all get faked there.

 

Wonder what they would do if we faked their coins and loaded them on ebay & shipped to china:loud: :hug:Kiss

 

There probably would be no point since most modern stuff is minted in the billions, has little value and is readily available. It's just as easy to get the real thing as it would be to get a fake.

FWIW, the nickels did not stick to a magnet.

 

Problem is that is illegal HERE. They fake ours, no problem. We fake theirs, we go to jail.

 

Final update: Last 3 arrived

You guys will like this. 24 days after the sale, and after contacting the seller to see where they were at, I finally received the last 3. In the same packaging again..........but the envelope it came in had one of the previous seller's name on the label! And of course, the replicas were the same as the others I had received.

FWIW, it appears to be either one guy using 3 different ebay accounts or several guys working together out of the same place.