Dealer said not to slab raw coin, why?

I called a cion dealer who had sent me a catalog to inquire about some raw coins they listed as Choice BU and Gem BU. I asked what grade should I expect if I sent one of these coins to a TPG and the lady told me their grading was very strict and the Choice BU coins would be MS61 or MS62 and the Gem BU would be MS63, but I didn't need to send them in to be graded because you never know what they are going to grade them. She said they were confident in the grades they gave the raw coins but if I wanted to get a coin graded I should buy one that is already slabed rather than sending in one they sold raw to be graded. I guess I don't understand why if they were so confident in their coins they didn't want me to send it in. Is this common practice just buy expensive graded pieces rather sending raw coins that considerably cheaper to be graded?
Thanks kent

 

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Out of curiosity, what is the coin you are talking about?

 

The seller probably strongly suspects that the coins wont grade the same (and maybe not even close) at a major grading company. If you want your coins certified, far more times than not, you are better off buying them that way. Otherwise you will have to guess how they will grade out, spend time and grading+postage fees to have them graded and rarely end up with what you wanted, anyway. Don't beat your head against the wall trying to defy large odds.

 

From the Glossery of one Grading Service:

Gem Uncirculated The adjectival equivalent of Mint State 65 or 66.


Brilliant Uncirculated A generic term applied to any coin that has not been in circulation. It often is applied to coins with little "brilliance" left, which properly should be described as simply Uncirculated.

 

Some coins depending on how common they are are not worth the grading fees. As someone already asked - What type coin are we talking about? Something I also forgot - some dealers just do not like the TPG's(lots of reasons why).

 

I was about to post that my understanding is that Gem=MS65. It sounds like the dealer isn't even confident that his Gem coins will be MS63. Big Red Flag.

 

I was talking about one of the more expensive Morgans. I too thought Choice was MS63-64 and Gm wasMS65-66, but I was told select was MS60 choice MS61-62 gem MS63. Slabbed coins are generally more expensive than raw coins presented as the same grade and with some being as much as several hundred dollars I thought having a raw coin graded might be more economical.

 

Descriptions such as "gem", "choice" , etc. are ambiguous at best, and often misused and abused.

Buying an uncertified coin can be more economical, but it is often anything but that. A buyer has to contend with over-grading and/or problems with the coins. And be able to evaluate and grade coins to a level of expertise which is quite difficult to achieve. Often, what appears to be a good deal for an uncertified coin ends up being a very bad one. Most people think they can beat the large odds against them, but very few actually do.

 

I know a dealer who told a customer to pick out the worst coin out of a bu roll of saints and he (the dealer) would pay to have it certified by PCGS on their fastest grading option. It came back as an ms62. From that point on the customer bought from that dealer with confidence and referred others to do the same (the customer was a dentist and had dentist friends so there was a lot of money in that). That dealer btw was (is) a super honest dealer/person. An honest dealer should encourage you to double check the grade with a third party grading service.

 

I do not think that gem is ambiguous, gem means ms65. If they say otherwise they are defrauding you.

 

I disagree. "Gem" can also mean better than MS65 and I have seen coins graded higher than MS65 referred to as such. Also, "choice" is often used to signify MS63. So an MS64 coin, which is better than "choice" might be referred to as "gem" without it being fraudulent. The bottom line is that such terms should not be taken at anywhere near face value and the coins should be evaluated completely independently of such adjectives.

 

Superb gem is a better than ms65. Anyway it is better to nail down what they are saying with a number because it can amount to hundreds of dollars.

 

Your above statement is another good example of the ambiguity involved in these modifiers - "superb" often signifies MS67, but there is nothing "incorrect" in referring to an MS66 or better coin as "'superb".

 

Why not then make a deal with the dealer? Pick a coin you like and then they give you a grade on it. Tell them that if the coin grades the same, 1 point higher, or lower, you will pay for the grading and the coin. If it grades 2 points lower, they pay for the grading and have the option to offer you a fair price based on that grade. BTW: I would take a picture of the face to insure the coin so they cannot switch coins to make things work out in their favor.

With more expensive Morgans, a dealer worth a (you know) ~ they should be willing to work in a fair manner for you and them. If it is an expensive Morgan, then why not risk the price of grading it?

I agree with descriptions like superb and gem as being ambiguous. Anyone can say it means something different to them based on whatever notion (good or bad) they have. A point grade is based on a system that at least has rules that most legit people can interpret close enough to the same.

The dealer Danr mentioned is the type of dealer I would want to do business with or someone that has an impeccable reputation. If they are not willing to put their advice to the test against an independent reputable source then I would not want to spend hard earned money with them!

Trust is earned.

 

MS-60 coins are ugly bagmarked dogs that lack luster, but show no signs of wear, IMO !

Give me a nice AU-58 instead.

I take Gem to mean MS-65

Select means nothing, if that means MS-60

Maybe selected as an inferior coin from a roll, to get rid of ? :hail:

adjectives mean little

how about awesome, kewl, *****in', hot,sexy,comcastic, etc ?

 

I am newer to this site so forgive me if I post things already said. But a friend gave me this site to help with buying raw coins.

http://coinauctionshelp.com/US_Coin_Grading_Guides.html

 

Well I am not talking about coins purchased in person I was talking about coins from a mailer sent by a well known dealer. All they have are dates and prices with all coins listed under one grade. I thought the number asigned to their choice and gems was too low personally, but i have never bought from them and wanted advice. i am no where the grader I know some of you to be from I have seen on here, but coin in hand I am going to be pretty close and when buying I am very conservative. I just saw a 1934S Peace Dollar they said would grade MS63 for $1895 and I know if were PCGS graded MS63 you probably couldn't touch it for twice that. Therefore why not send it in and why tell me not chance it.

 

Because if, for example, it grades less than MS62, you have paid too much, and will be compounding that by spending grading and postage fees. And if it grades AU58 and/or has problems, you might be overpaying by hundreds of dollars.

There is a much downside as upside in terms of dollars, and based on what I see out there, there is a much greater chance of that downside occurring than there is of the upside.