German Third Reich Type Set

I completely understand what you are saying. What I have never understood is why the Deutsches Reich is considered all one period. Is it because there are easily distinguishable boundaries (both government change and ends of wars)? I have always felt that this should be three distinct periods because there were three distinct governments and thus three distinct nations. That being Imperial Germany (1871-1918), Weimar Germany (1919-1933), and Nazi Germany (1933-1945). What we have here are three separate and very different governments in a short period of time...effectively three different nations.

 

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I think its just that the Germans didn't differentiate it that way...but historians do to mark the different periods where the political and government changed. Reich is an interesting word the way it is translated. Its literal translation to English seems to be 'Empire' and it was indeed an empire under the Hohenzollern Rulers. Germans seem to translate it as Realm or Domain and the word does not have to denote a government ruled by a monarch or emperor. Thus it remains an appropriate label for all these periods and all coins from this period ID the country as Deutsches Reich. I guess it would be the same with many countries...if American political structure changed, or one party dominated America, it would still probably be called America.

 

I guess it would depend on how much it changed. The 3 governments in power during this era weren't just different parties...but completely different types of government (Constitutional Monarchy, Federal Semi-Presidential Republic, Dictatorship). It would be as if the English Colonies, Articles of Confederation Government, and the present US government were all considered same country. Although they occupy the same land and have the same people, they were governed by completely different political beliefs.

 

Fair enough. I didn't acutally take it personally, because I don't yet collect third reich coins. Its just something I plan to do in the future. Your statement just made it sound like people who don't collect the same way you do are ignorant people who just like shiny trinkets, lol.

 

I see what you mean. It seems to me to be up to the people who are in power and how they want to proceed after a dramatic switch. France has seen quite a few changes but the name France seems to be a general name for that country whether it is used with Imperial, Kingdom, or Republic...some variation of the name France was used. It seems to me there have been a lot of countries who have changed the style of government quite drastically but retained the same country name...maybe with a slight variation to denote a different form of government. I would think whether its a kingdom or a republic, to call it France would still be correct. Since Deutsches Reich seems to be, in essence, a way of saying Germany or German Domains, it would be the equivalent of a General country name like France since, if I am not mistaken, Geramny did not really exist before the formation of the German Reich. It was a loose group of individual Kingdoms, Duchies and the north German Confederation (itself a group of Duchies, kingdoms, principalities and a few free states) before.

 

In the Middle Ages there was the Holy Roman Empire, which implied or insinuated a continuation of the Roman Empire, later called H.R.E. of German Nation (Heiliges Römisches Reich Deutscher Nation), a conglomerate of basically independent "countries". That ended in 1806.

Between 1815 and 1866 there was the Deutscher Bund (German Federation), another fairly loose cooperation of German countries. Then we have the Norddeutscher Bund (North German F.) for five years, with a sort-of-federal structure but dominated, also militarily, by Prussia.

Anyway, between 1871 and 1949 there was that country called Deutsches Reich, and that name also appeared on the coins from that period. Regardless of the political system ...

Christian

 

my turn

:hail:
History has to perveal
We are the coin keeper's of history because every coin has a history
So i vote yes
I have some of these coins and at the end of the day we collect what we like
Dave

 

To consider the change in government type to be a change in countries, one has to ask, did everyone's German passport become invalid in 1919 and again in 1933? Of course not! The people living in Germany maintained the same citizenship as they had before. If you have the same citizenship, you have the same country - it's as simple as that.

 

I disagree. If tomorrow the US government became a dictatorship with totally new ideals and new laws...would it be the same US even if the passports still worked and we were all citizens? I don't think so.

I know such a thing is an extreme and impossible example...but there isn't much difference. The takeover in Germany took only a matter of months.

 

It wouldnt be the same US but it MIGHT still be called the United States (as long as it was still a conglomeration of states) which is what I thought we were talking about. I believe it would all be up to those in power and what they thought best. historically speaking many countries have gone through drastic changes and still retained the same general name of the country used by previous governments...others have changed the name to something completely different or made slight changes to the official name to reflect the change (many African nations changed their names when released from colonial rule). It seems to be a case by case basis. Germany chose to retain the official name over several different governmental changes...

Chris would be the best person to speak about this, I just know what I have read, he lives there and obviously knows, in more detail, the history and how the people view this topic.

 

That is true, it very well could retain it's name...but does the name or the government make it a different country? What if they still called it the United States and kept the dollar as the basic currency. Would Washington Quarters and [Insert Dictator's Image] Quarters be collected together in the same type set? I wouldn't think so as it's two different governments. I suppose that's what I have always considered to be the definition of a country...the ruling body. I understand that name Deutsches Reich remained through the period of 1871-1945, but as a coin collector fascinated by this point in history...I would classify this into three separate sets of coins due to the three different governments and three different ideals.

That said, I am going to include all German coinage from 1933-1948 as part of my Third Reich type set (including the post-war occupation coinage).

 

... except that my view may well be different from other people's views, no matter where they live. Of course the political system in the Weimar Republic was different from that of the imperial years, and the nazi regime was radically different. Then again, even the last few "democratic" governments (roughly 1930-Jan'33) had made extensive use of emergency regulations.

As I wrote before, people who collect Deutsches Reich coins will want the Imperial, Weimar, Nazi and Occupation pieces. As for myself, I collect the coins from my country, the Federal Republic of Germany (1949-today), plus certain other modern pieces. Others may collect euro coinage only. And catalogs (which tend to be chronological here, rather than by denomination) are structured that way too - coins that were first issued in the Weimar years are listed in the Weimar pages, no matter whether the nazi regime continued to make them for a while or not.

Now if an American says, I want to collect all coins that were minted in Nazi Germany, regardless of whether when they were designed or first issued - fine with me. Somebody else may say, I collect only 1 pfennig coins, from whichever year or country. We can all set our own goals when it comes to what we want to collect, right?

Christian

 

Exactly.

 

Certainly, No judgement from me how one chooses to collect, this was someone asking for opinions, not judgement on how he decides to proceed. As for opinions, I made mine clear as I agree with how the catalogs do it.

 

That was exactly what I wanted...I wanted to know what others thought belonged in this set as I found it strange the change in government and coinage didn't occur at the same time. This thread has turned into a much more interesting and informative discussion than I expected.

I had pretty much planned on including all coins 1933-1948 in my type set from the beginning.

 

what about the 1939 F 50 Reich Coin?