Can we trust current slab coins?.

I'm pretty sure he was saying that grading (Even like a professional) is easy. And I strongly disagree.

 

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I could not have said it better but,

I could not have said it better but, the TPG companies do play a part in it but you are right it's the people who pay for this stuff that keep it "hot"!

 

No doubt some have been burned if they though they could flip them for a quick profit. But I think many others probably just wanted to own "perfect" coins and hand them down to their children with the expectation that some future generation might profit from it. I don't consider that to be unreasonable or any more of a waste of money than purchasing most other collectibles. I think some folks out there are collectors, but not necessarily coin collectors in the same sense that people here are. Maybe that's the difficulty in understanding their motivation.

 

I'll tell you, I don't agree with everything you just said, but with much of it. Let me try this, again, on what I'm saying...

Let’s just take the MS grades, as an example. Forget about the circulated grades, for now. I'm just trying to simplify this. What are they, the major TPGs, doing, there? They’re placing the coins submitted to them for grading in general tiers, which, let's acknowledge, are everything but decimal-point accurate. And, with respect to a lot of these grades, there’s still room for error, still room for disagreement.

Now, when I said I believe I can teach people, from a cold start, how to do that job, as good as the major TPGs do it, inside a week, you, of course, have to be fair to me, and give me their resources. Inside a week, though, like I said, I believe I could have these "walk-ons" grading as good (meaning, “as accurate”) as these major TPGs are grading. Read that statement, again, if you believe you need to. And, while you are at that, I believe I elaborated on it, some, just after Doug’s reply...read that, too. But, I don’t happen to believe it’s like Jim is suggesting, a superior skill set, which distinguishes these grades. Their superior knowledge...by virtue of doing the same thing, over and over, again, day-in and day-out, for years, and years...only enables them to grade quicker, not better. In short, it's their resources that distinguish them, and their grades. That's it. IMHO...

 

I think you are completely incorrect in saying that with a weeks worth of training they could grade as accurate but slower. They just don't have the experience yet. Even working 24 hours a day, 1 week isn't enough time. It's true of any skill.

Here's an unrelated example...I'm a dental student, I have been one for over a year now. I can prepare any tooth in the mouth for a crown. That's a skill I have learned, but I can't do it as well as my instructors. I simply haven't done it enough times. The same is true with coin grading. It takes doing it over and over again for a substantial period of time to become good at it...just like preparing teeth.

 

If we were to take it to a popular vote, I lose. No, I get smashed. I sorta figgered that...

I'd have never said what I did in reference to your chosen profession, no way. Let's first just clear that up. That's different, IMHO.

You guys are pressing me on this, and it's hard for me to discuss it much further, because I don't exactly know what their "system" is. By that, I mean, I don't know exactly where they like to make the cuts and the calls on the grading checkpoints, or, i.e., on how they like to go about striking the balance on these criteria. But, assuming, for purposes of general discussion, I did. And, again, assume I had their market resources. In other words, you've got an 1881-S Morgan Dollar, here, to grade? And, these are the grading checkpoints we look at? And, this is our system, how we need you to weigh those diverse, qualitative, criteria, in order to arrive at your grade? And, here are 100 (...hell, why stop there, make that 1000) slabbed 1881-S Morgan Dollars, all at various grades, as a learning tool, and example of how we'd prefer you to make those cuts and calls...study them? Got the hang of it, yet? Ready to move on to some of the other dates and mints, now? Another series of coin, perhaps? I don't know, guys. I still think you're making way too much of these supposed "skills." I'm sorry. I'm really struggling to keep an open mind, here, too, as your opinions do carry a lot of weight with me. But, I'm not persuaded...

PS: Again, I think they're very good at what they do, should that mean anything...

 

I never said you said that about my profession...I clearly referred to it as an "unrelated example." But my argument is it isn't different. Both require incredibly honed skills that take a long time to get good at. I was taught to prepare a tooth in 1 week...but I wasn't very good at it at the end of that week although I had been repeatedly practicing for that period. Acquired skills like this, just like coin grading, take both lots of practice and time to get very good at.

 

FWIW, I'm saying your "unrelated example" (analogy?) is unrelated enough, here, to be inapt. IMHO...

 

Well, since I happen to know quite a bit about both coin grading and dentistry...I think I'm in a position to compare them. And, trust me...both require a lot of skill that cannot be quickly mastered.

 

I'm an expert in sitting in the chair, the dental chair - I've spent more hours there

I'm an expert in sitting in the chair, the dental chair - I've spent more hours there than most I ever met. Oh gosh, I jumped back in this thread, oh well -

Anyone can call themselfs and expert. Is that what bothers dude?

The proof is "in the pudding".

Again, have you looked at hundreds of thousands of coins? Can you search 5000 Lincoln cents in an afternoon and each time you pick one up know exactly what to look for in your sleep. Do you know what decade the cent is by looking at the reverse before you turn it over?
1997? Look for doubled ear obv., wavy steps rev., yellow/brass planchets, strike quality, die state, die rotation and do that in one second. Plus be able to do it on every coin since 1959 and most since 1909? Have you memorized every known doubled die in the series and the die markers for each???
Can you pick up the phone and call Potter (I just did, talked for an hour), Bordner, Crawford, Weinburg?
Is your name referenced in die variety books? Did you help write some? Is your coins photos in those books? Have you found one of the rairest coins in the world as far as U.S. variety are concered? Did you get in Coin World for that? Not once but three times for different coins??? Do you have dozens of people come to your monthly longest running coin show in the nation to ask your opinion of a coins?
Do you know that you are certain you have much always to learn but in fact, yes, you do know a great deal?

Well golly gee golly I have no problem in the world saying yes, in many respects when it come to Lincoln cent die varieties, I am an expert. There are many that know much more than I but I do know much.

Balls of fire dude you think I qualify yet???

Also, (and I'll shut up after this) Knowing ones abillties is as much a part of true humility as knowing what one does not know - they are both equally important. I will not as false pride would have some say, "well I won't say I'm an expert, it's kind of bragging. I have earned and paid dues to say what I say and know what I know. I will not let anyone take that away from me, I paid dearly for this!

 

Sorry I put this in the wrong thread - I'm not an expert at posting!

Sorry I put this in the wrong thread - I'm not an expert at posting!

 

LOL, I was reading it and trying to connect it to the rest of the thread...then I saw this. Sorry, kind of funny.

 

Well, OK, but you missed the ball. That is to say, I never said grading isn't difficult to learn. That's an issue, rather, you guys pulled out of your hat. Sure, you strongly disagree, there, or, the entire numismatic community disagrees, there, or, learning to grade is like dentistry, or, it's like pearls. You want to hit this ball, give us some supporting rationale, like I did; explain why you believe the TPGs "realtor -style" of market grading, as I'll call it, is so difficult to learn. Otherwise, throw in the towel, and we’ll let that issue go, for now. That's, of course, OK, too...

 

You never said grading isn't difficult? So you're saying it IS difficult, yet you believe you can train monkies to do it?

 

???

 

Listen, if you really want to get my meaning, there's a little nuance called "context," which kinda helps one define that. Go back to post 108, where this started. That'd be on page 8 (just click the little 8, of course, to get there). Then, try real hard to pay attention to that little nuance while you're reading through my replies, up to this point. Then, note, everything I said was in the context of the way the TPGs do it. I didn't frame the issue, otherwise. You guys did that, all by yourselves. That's all I'm talking about, here, though. FWIW...

 

I read all your posts. Spin it any way you want it though eddie.

 

nevermind

 

Nevermind. You must just be smarter than everyone else since you're the only one who understands. i think you were just trying to stir people up anyway