SEGS and Jeffersons

While I understand your point, you can't change the standard for full steps in order to make a coin qualify. The presence of bridges eliminates the possibility of a full step designation. Think about how many coins would qualify for full steps if you could include every coin that had bridges or nicks. It would destroy the rarity of the strike designation and the prices. Here is an example of what I am talking about. By SEGS standards, this coin would be a full step coin.






Regarding grading, it is impossible for SEGS to grade the same as the big two because the big two don't grade this series the same. PCGS is almost a full grade more conservative than NGC. If you don't believe me, take a look at the non full step populations, price guides, and auction prices realized. NGC is far more stringent with the application of the FS designation than PCGS, and from what you are saying, SEGS has their own warped opinion of what qualifies for full steps. To my knowledge, both NGC and PCGS will allow nicks on the steps as long as the nick is not deep enough to disrupt the step line. Bridges on the other hand are FS designation killers for both NGC & PCGS.

Paul

 

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Thanks for all the comments so far. I think I understand where I was confused now.

SEGS does have "chatty" labels and I think I mistook that for "quality". On the other hand, I have read good things about SEGS.

I'm not sure I'd give the SEGS label any special consideration for a slabbed Kennedy half, but I guess I'd take a closer look if it were a Jefferson. They do seem to have a reputation in that area (good, bad or ugly - but a rep nonetheless)

 

Answers To Questions

This comment is to Paddy54, who once again is mistaken! I am offering the following information and facts to enlighten Paddy54 and anyone else that has misconceptions and comments concerning SEGS. SEGS Grading Service located in Chattanooga, Tennessee, has NEVER, I repeat, NEVER applied the grade of Mint State 70 to a Jefferson Nickel. In fact we tell people anticipating Mint State or Proof 70 grades that they are wasting their time, and are asked to not submit the coin(s) to SEGS. SEGS has applied the “70” numerical grade covering ALL U.S. Series in Mint State and Proof to less than 25 or 30 coins. This application spans the entire 13 years of Segs’ existence.

As far as my being a Jefferson Nickel expert, I regard Mr. Bernard Nagengast to be the top Jefferson Nickel expert. I have worked with and have been taught by Mr. Nagengast since the late 1960’s and early 70’s.

I have handled several hundred thousand Jefferson Nickels over the years and personally own over two hundred thousand. I am confident that I can competently analyze, authenticate, attribute and grade Jefferson Nickels with any “expert” in the country. I wish I had microscopic vision like Paddy54 to enhance procedures at the grading service. To quote Paddy54, “I wish I could enlarge the picture to show more details.”

Again, I have been evaluating and grading Jefferson Nickels since 1962 and have mastered the skill and precision necessary to properly grade and attribute them. SEGS (not any other service, club, or organization) implemented the practice of placing the step count on the holder label. This information is provided to establish a more “true” condition of the coin. Five or Six step coins (even with nicks/ticks or bridges) are worth more than non Five or Six step coins of the same grade; therefore SEGS provides the additional tools required to form a more cohesive opinion of the coin being offered “sight-seen” or “sight-unseen”.

SEGS has never deemed a coin “Five Full Steps” or “Six Full Steps” and then added nicks, ticks, or bridges to the label.

Bottom line: To Paddy54 and the rest of the “SGS”- confused - “SEGS” community; we have never graded a Jefferson Nickel Mint State 70! SEGS does not assign a “Full Step” designation and then place the terms nicks, ticks, and/or bridges. For those of you that thought you were informed and were not… you are now!

It is true that grading is subjective, but if SEGS of Chattanooga, Tennessee is so bad, how is it we came out #1 in the “BLIND” grading test performed by “Coin World” a few years ago? Are we trying to reach the truth? Well, if SEGS is actually as bad as many of you WANT others to believe, why is it that the “Big Two or Three” (as you call them) keep copying almost every original application that SEGS Grading Service implemented… the same ideas from SEGS Grading Service that they and some of you find ultimately convenient to “Bash” SEGS with!

Lets’ see if someone posts a link to the “web” for this section of the discussion as was that of Paddy54 so that it is “out there” for a quick, easy link!

Mr. Larry Briggs
CEO
SEGS Grading Company
Chattanooga, TN

 

Larry,

It seems as though you are a little ticked off. Unfortunately, you have confused me more than you enlightened me. Let me start by saying that I am an avid collector of Jefferson Nickels. I am not big on varieties, and have not seen anywhere near the number of nickels that you have. However, I do own the 3rd ranked war nickel set and 6th ranked 1938-64 Jefferson set in the NGC registry and understand the grading standards employed by both PCGS and NGC very well.

Personally, I have never seen an SEGS graded Jefferson Nickel and know nothing about your grading standards other than what has been posted in this thread. You stated in your post: Five or Six step coins (even with nicks/ticks or bridges) are worth more than non Five or Six step coins of the same grade; therefore SEGS provides the additional tools required to form a more cohesive opinion of the coin being offered “sight-seen” or “sight-unseen”.

In your very next sentence you stated: SEGS has never deemed a coin “Five Full Steps” or “Six Full Steps” and then added nicks, ticks, or bridges to the label.

This is where I am confused. 6stepstucky posted a link to a photo that shows an SEGS holder with the following information: 5 STEPS/BRIDGES/NICKS. Which one is it? The photographic evidence would lead me to believe that your post was hasty and therefore, unclear.

As for the overall opinion and reputation of SEGS vs PCGS & NGC, that is a result of the court of public opinion. You are free to believe that PCGS & NGC are regarded as more consistent and conservative because of their size and a well marketed propaganda campaign, but I promise you that signing up on a coin forum simply to admonish some of it's members will not help your company's reputation at all.

Paul

PS. 200,000 Jeffersons. Why are you hoarding all of the nickels man? Sell some of them to the rest of us.:headbang:

 

Larry...I'm glad to see you posted here.

I have no qualifications to speak here, other than that I am a Jefferson nickel specialist.

I've seen Mr. Briggs at many Michigan coin shows, and I have purchased coins from him. Furthermore, I have SEGS-certified Jeffersons in my collection.

I have always found SEGS-certified Jeffersons to be graded as accurately as PCGS or NGC. As a proponent of the four-quarter step count method, I appreciate the fact that they use a-b-c-d designations of the steps when appropriate.

I have no problem holding these coins in my personal collection, and given that I buy the coin (as opposed to the slab), I believe I shall have no problem selling them when/if the time comes.

Just my five cents worth.

 

I have Jefferson nickels in my collection graded by PCGS, NGC, ANACS and Segs. PCGS and NGC seem to grade a little more conservative. But as far as step designation SEGS is far better than any of the other three.

Lehigh96, A Segs full step coin that don't have any nicks, ticks or bridges is labeled as FULL STEPS.
A coin with 5 or 6 steps but has nicks, or bridges is simply
labeled as 5 steps/nick or 6 steps/bridge

Also I would add IMHO SEGS has the best holder on the market.

 

Thanks ED!

That makes much more sense. Personally, my preference is toning first, full steps second. The full step designation does not automatically give the coin eye appeal but it does add to the beauty of and already eye appealing coin.

BTW. Did I say that I was ranked 3rd in the NGC war nickel registry. That statement is no longer accurate.



I guess I am going to have to assemble an SEGS war nickel set. Now if I can just persuade that guy Larry to sell me some, I would be in business.