Teen pays in legal tender has to call cops

Yes, for non-debt obligations such as the sale price of goods, but NOT FOR A DEBT until and unless the US Constitution is amended, or Congress rethinks its exercise of that constitutional authority.

Of course they were, but what does that have to do with their legal rights?

 

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I say kudos kiddo! I only wish he would have opened the two boxes too - give em 8,800 unrolled pennies and then insisted on counting them out himself. While I am in business and would hate to have someone come in with such a mess.... I would have to laugh, fuss and accept it. The only thing that upsets me about this whole thing is that, from what I can gather, it occupied three (or more) police officers for roughly 45 min. That is a waste of resources, time, and money. I can see where the blame on that topic could be assigned to any of the parties involved, including the police.

As to the debate back and forth whether a business can refuse payment or not. Yes, they can refuse it; however, they would wind up in the hot seat if it went to court. As hontonai mentioned earlier, the fact that this is a debt negates the merchants right to refuse the business/sale. I don't know what the costs to the merchant would be, but, it is very fair to say they would be much higher than the labor involved in counting 8,800 pennies.

 

Yep - funny, but being a smart aleck. I would have done just this...then after having waited several days for me to count they might have volunteered to get cash. Or better yet - count them quick as say there is less than 88. No car until paid in full. Then make the kid re-count them. I could think of other ways to make them suffer.

 

Yes the kids were trying to be a pain, no duh, and you know I would consider doing something like this as well.
Did the kid know that he parked in a tow zone? If so, then, he simply paid what was due, in a way to be a pain, back to the company that had his car towed (because he thought they were being a pain by towing his car)
If he didn't know he parked in a tow zone, then I would fight not to pay the $88, but if you had to do it, I would pay in pennies to
There was nothing wrong with what this kid did.

 

Sometimes people deserve tickets, and sometimes they're just issued to generate revenue. Perhaps if the powers that be knew that they would be paid in pennies, they might not be so quick to write that revenue generating ransom note.

 

That is the most intelligent, well thought-out post I've read on the internet in a long time. BRAVO!

 

What some ppl will do for their 15 seconds of fame? I wonder what would have happened if that business would have had a sign that said "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"?

I think the cops really goofed up on this one as I think in their haste to calm things down they actually made things worse. Maybe they should have just said, "get a life" kid.

I don't think it does anything positive for hoarders of pennies either, that's for sure.

 

It would not have mattered what sign they put up. He had a legal DEBT to them and they have to accept ANY legal tender for DEBTS.

He would have had to of payed them before they towed his car for them to say what form of payment they were willing to accept.

 

Woudnt have worked over here LOL we actualy do have limits impossed

COINS:
Coins are legal tender throughout the United Kingdom for the following amount:

£5 (Crown) - for any amount

£2 - for any amount

£1 - for any amount

50p - for any amount not exceeding £10

25p (Crown) - for any amount not exceeding £10

20p - for any amount not exceeding £10

10p - for any amount not exceeding £5

5p - for any amount not exceeding £5

2p - for any amount not exceeding 20p

1p - for any amount not exceeding 20p

 

Do you honestly believe that any court in the civilized world would allow a towing company to impound your car, and then when you went to claim it told you that "We refuse to do business with you"?

 

.......i'd go one further. i'd LOUPE each and everyone to check for errors or ddo or rpm's yahdda yahdda yahdda.

 

exactly - 8,800 possible varieties I cannot imagine that working in a tow yard is all that exciting - this would have been the perfect opportunity to have a little fun at the expense of kids trying to be a little jerky. At the end of the day they had every right to pay this way but you have every right to verify the amount is correct and that there are no counterfeits in the group

 

I don't know do you really think that it would have gone all that way?
Personally I don't believe that case would have gone farther than the police officers let alone a court of law. If I am wrong, can you actually cite a court case where or when this has happened?

I don't know the law on this but I don't think there is a law that clearly states that a small business needs to take all legal tender no matter how it is presented. Is there such a law that uses verbiage that clearly resolves that issue?

 

Check out post 24 by Hontonai, he stated very clearly the law involving DEBTS only.

Btw that was a very helpful post Hontonai.

As for this whole situation, were the kids being a little smart, and trying to inconvenience the tow company, of course, but were they 100% allowed to, Yes. I myself found it very funny, especially since I've had my car towed in the past :headbang:.

 

I agree and I too have been in this situation. Once towed - my fault and very-very inconvenient. (Tampa at 2 am just outside the city) Once almost towed - Told the guy I would tear up the lawn to get out of the spot I was in if he didn't move the truck (didn't have me hooked up yet). To prove it I started the car and put my hand on the shifter - he moved the truck rather than take the chance of anything getting damaged - including his truck. (I was young and maybe a little stupid in my reaction but he was not getting that car that way.) It was someplace a truck should have never gotten called to (residential) and would have simply been resolved with a - could you move your car.

 

I am not even sure the kid owed a debt. It's different than a debt b/c if you don't want to pay it you really don't have to.

Please correct me if I am wrong. Owing a tow yard will most likely be different for all states concerned but the fine or charges is not a debt, or is it?

Can someone actually show me a citation that clearly identifies owing a towing yard is actually a debt? I think it's a violation of law and considered a fine.

keep :kewl:as I am not an attorney and I am simply asking for a definition and citation here as I don't even agree that it was a debt, maybe it doesn't make a difference, I don't know.

 

I am.

Your right to not pay, resulting in loss of the vehicle at a lien sale, doesn't alter the nature of the obligation.

Well, according to Title 11 U.S. Code §101(12):

If you think that either having to pay the charges, or lose title to his vehicle, wasn't a "liability", I don't know what to say.

I am. California State Bar No. 36249, effective January 5, 1965. Admitted to practice before the U.S. Supreme Court on February 22, 1971.

 

The only thing to say after that post is: Checkmate Fretboard.

Nice Job Hontonai!​

 

Checkmate?, not so fast Lehigh!

Counselor,
Since you are an attorney then obviously you know that just saying something is a debt doesn't mean it is. Just because someone will lose their vehicle doesn't make it a debt either. It may be ignorant on their part but being ignorant doesn’t make it a debt either. In California it is a violation of the vehicle code, therefore possibly making it a fine.

It’s been fun verbally sparring with you but I still don’t know if the lady had to legally accept payment in pennies. In my pursuit of learning and trying to keep educated I am withdrawing my self imposed entry into this conversation. If that is a checkmate, then I accept with a smile. :kewl:

During my entries on this thread I have asked for a couple of things to be cited. If you get around to posting those I would appreciate it. this encil: is hereby over for me at least.


http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22658.htm​

 

Same here (euro area), except the limit is simply "max. 50 coins per payment". And even though this means we won't see odd stories like this one in the local press, the rule sure has its advantages.

Christian