10 more 1933 Double Eagles to be legal

I missed this news article this weekend:

For once the judge got it right!


"Judge says U.S. must return rare coins to Phila. family
By Vernon Clark

Inquirer Staff Writer

A judge in Philadelphia has ruled that the federal government must return 10 extremely rare gold coins to the family of a late Center City jeweler or outline its case for keeping them in a forfeiture filing"

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/52246492.html

however, what does this do to the value of the one King Farouk coin?

Apparently it will drop the value, but, by how much?

 

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You got that right, as I explained in detail here.

 

It is about Time!
:kewl: I hope the judges also rule that the government must pay the family's lawyer fee Too
but I am sure the government will talk there time giving them back!!!

 

I thought the judge ruled that the forfeiture hearing was to happen by September or at least be scheduled. I also believe that because of the order of things that happened that the burden of proof is on the government now. They have to prove they were stolen and with out any live witness and written records that don't align with each other, things are looking pretty good for the Langbords.

My guess is that the government will end up giving the Langbords a financial settlement as they promised the Fentons that no other 1933 double eagles would be legalized.

 

Having to return the coins will not make them legal, the court judgement was simply that the government had overstepped their bounds by confiscating them without due process. The government can still have the forfeiture hearing and then reconfiscate them legally. Assuming they win the forfeiture case.

 

My understanding is they won't be returned until the results of the forfeiture hearing even though they were deemed improperly confiscated?

 

Can't the Gov. just give the coins back and then make them pay taxes on their windfall , then both sides win .
rzage

 

Accept for the fact that the government signed or told the owner of the legal 1933 Double Eagle that that would be the only one.

I have a feeling that when the gov. gets backed far enough into the corner that they will just settle with the Langbords as they are most likely just interested in the money anyway. That way they get to keep their promise and the coins.

 

I agree they will probably continue to hold them until the forfeiture hearings. Just seems odd to me because the judge has already ruled that the government took them and is holding them illegally, you would think they should have to return them immediately. After all if I take something and get caught I don't get to keep the property until after my trial.

 

I think the difference here is if they would have filed for a forfeiture hearing to begin with the government would have been legal holding on to them but since they did not the Judge rulled it illegal and gave them until September to file a forfeiture hearing in which case the gov. would be in the right holding on to them until the hearing is over.

If the government would have done things right to begin with the Langbords would be out of luck as they may have been able to put the burden of proof on them but now most likely in this hearing the burden of proof will be on the government and because of this I think they are likely to settle.

Can't wait until the hearing to see what happens.

 

Ok , now the stupid question , why can't the Gov. go back on its word about keeping the one legal one the only legal one ?
And two how many '33 double Eagles do they know of , besides these 11 .
rzage

 

For question one, they probably could but I think it would be a huge PR issue and they would rather not have the headache.

For question two, I forgot how many but I think it was in the teens and they have all been accounted for now.

The ones Swit sold and were then confiscated,

The one that was sold by fenton and eventually settled by with the gov.

The 10 confiscated from the Langbords

 

Okay here is what I do not exactly understand...
Why in the [expletive] does the government give a crap about these coins? This, has no effect on anything, I mean, what is like 20 gold coins to the US Government? I mean does it really matter if the government just said "Okay, they are legal to own"
Can somebody please explain this to me, or make it a little clearer for me to understand. Thanks

 

Can't really explain it except for the image thing. They have stated for such a long time that no 1933 coins were released and there is no joking when it comes to the gov and thier records, they take things pretty seriously. If they give in on one thing then it becomes that much easier to give in on another thing.

Not really answering your question as I really don't know why they are so serious abou this. I wish they could just let it go as a mistake and write it off.

 

Except in that article they were wrong, saint gaudens don't have 1 ounce of gold in them...

If they get to keep all of them, good for them. They're instant millionaires

 

I am surprised that the gov. hasn't pretaxed them and said that they would get a refund if in fact they find that they are the owners after the dust has settled. Heck they do it to the rest of us on a daily basis. : )

This case is going to interesting to watch to see the outcome.

 

jim:
Interesting thought, and in a way they can.
If, in fact,they decide to do it.
They can declare that the father's estate return was incorrectly filed, with mis-leading information, and not including the coins, then the FMV (fair market value) at the time may be added to the value of the estate, and taxed at the then estate rate, (I am not sure of the year of death).
The estate rate could be up to 50%, plus whatever the state's rate was.
Then the increase in value would be taxed at Long Term Capital Gains rate, much lower rate.
If they (the Gov't) want to they can really screw the family.

 

Check the Aug 4 Coin World for an article and copies of some relevant documents. This was published a couple of weeks before the Court’s rulings were released.